3: Mental Health and Organizing with Suzanne Orlando
Is there something holding you back from getting organized that you can't quite pinpoint? For some of us, it may be our mental health. Licensed therapist Suzanne Orlando joins us in this episode to share about the relationship between mental health and organization, plus resources to finding help based on your needs!
The Organized & Productive podcast is brought to you by The Organized Flamingo and hosted by Stephanie Y. Deininger! For those of you who love the thought of organizing & being more productive, but don’t know where to start or constantly up against hurdles that don’t let you advance the way you want to, this podcast is for you!
The Relationship Between Mental Health & Organization
When it comes to organization, what we have on the outside is a reflection of what is happening on the inside. If we are able to be organized and fully understand what's going on internally with us emotionally, that presents a better opportunity to be organized on the outside or vice versa.
Sometimes your mental health is what is effecting your ability to get organized. A lot of it comes down to control, what you can control and what you can't.
Finding Control in Your Organization
It's easy to set unrealistic expectations for ourselves when it comes to organization. It's usually a big goal or dream of what these expectations should be, yet we're limiting ourselves by not focusing on something within our control—typically a smaller detail.
Consider focusing on a small task in front of you; when you complete that task, that's a huge accomplishment in the direction of your bigger dreams. When you do this, you begin understanding that there are things in life that you have absolutely no control over and you can start focusing on the things that you can control.
Finding Help with Your Mental Health
You may have tried to find control in your organization, but simply can't—that's okay. There may be more and deeper things you need to focus on, like your mental health. One approach is through traditional therapy.
Traditional Therapy is a form of talk therapy where you are processing what you're going through with a licensed professional who is a neutral perspective with an empathetic ear. Additionally, they have the capacity to refer you out to other resources.
A few types of therapists include licensed clinical social workers, psychologists, licensed professional counselors, etc. Each of these therapists will also approach their patients with different modalities (like cognitive behavioral therapy or psychodynamic therapy) based on what they're presenting.
If you're looking for someone to talk to, call around, ask your practitioner, and get referrals for someone you're comfortable with. You can connect with the referrals, interview them, ask them how they approach therapy, and try them out.
Therapy is a Journey
Therapy is a journey and you may not find the right fit immediately or even feel better after the first session. Each and every patient has a different process and experience—when you're committing to therapy, you may not be able to put a time stamp on it.
There is an expectation that new patients have that when they will leave their therapist that they will feel better, yet the reality is that you're unpacking a lot of things in your sessions that may get uncomfortable. When that happens, you're making progress.
It's so easy to oversimplify mental health and organization, but this podcast was created as a resource to help you. We'll be bringing on guest experts in the coming episodes, so make sure you're subscribed and tuned in on your favorite podcast app!
Happy Organizing!
Connect with Suzanne:
https://www.instagram.com/anxiety_alchemist/
https://www.suzanneorlando.com/
Review the Transcript:
Stephanie
Welcome to another episode of organized and productive. For today's episode, we have another first milestone for us. And that is our very first guest. I am thrilled to have Suzanne Orlando, who's a psychotherapist, licensed clinical social worker, anxiety strategy Coach and an amazing person to talk about mental health and understanding how mental health affects our ability, or maybe the inability to get and stay organized and productive. I really thought long and hard about who our first guest was going to be. And I always knew that mental health was going to be a very important part of our podcast. Mental health is a crucial part of organizing. And when I met Suzanne, a few years ago, I knew she would be the perfect person for our first episode, and for this particular episode, to give us an overview of mental health and how it affects the organizing and productivity journey, and also where you can get resources that are easily accessible. So let's get right into our discussion with Suzanne Orlando.
Stephanie
Welcome to the organized and productive podcast with the organized Flamingo. I'm your host, Stephanie, a professional organizer and productivity expert, ready to explore the right organizing and productivity solutions for you. Yeah, well, then let's go.
Stephanie
Hi, Suzanne, I'm so glad that you are here. So first and foremost, we'd like to talk about mental health in general speak. And that is right now there is a big movement insane that when you do these things like when you organize, it's really good for your mental health, and it'll help your mental health. But I can't help but think how important the statement the wrote the reversal of that statement is. So let's talk a little bit about what your thoughts are when people don't talk about okay, well, maybe you can't get organized or more productive? Because the mental health part is just not there. So what are your thoughts about that?
Suzanne
I think I love this question. And I'm glad that this is the first one because I think when it comes to organization, I really do believe that what we have on the outside in terms of organization, whether that it's a closet or a drawer, or are just knowing where things are is, is a very big reflection on what's happening internally. And I think it's very much a chicken and egg situation here. Because if we are able to be organized and fully understand what's going on internally with us emotionally in mental health wise, I think that presents a better opportunity to be organized on the outside or vice versa. If our life is complete chaos on the outside, it's probably a reflection of what's really going on on the inside. I don't think that those two things are ever a coincidence. I think they're certainly aligned and connected. Yeah,
Stephanie
100%. In this is where will you and I when we met, that was one of the things that I absolutely loved about you is how you never took one or the two, one of the two statements as more important than the others, you know, it was the mental health could come first. But for some people, it comes after you know, the realization after they start to want to get more organized and start to want to get more productive, like they have this, this need. And they understand that that could help. And then in the process of, of going on their organizing journey, they realize that there's more to the story that there's more to their story for so many people, their mental health is what is affecting their inability to get organized to begin with. And you don't really find that out until you're actually doing it. And then that's when you realize, okay, there's something happening here. I've tried different, I've read different books, I've tried different methods. I've talked to many people, I follow all the social media accounts, I fold the way that they told me to fold, I have the planner that they told me to buy, and it's still not working. So what let's talk a little bit about that. What are some of the factors that have mental health that we can control and that we cannot control? So let's kind of kind of go back a little bit to the very, you know, one on one of what when you're feeling so distraught, and trying to be more organized, and more productive and nothing is working? What would you say to somebody like, Okay, we like these are the things you can control and you can control? And then let's go from there, like what are some of those factors?
Suzanne
This is a great question, because again, I think completely aligned with the organizational piece, right. So I think when we're taking on something, and this can be applied to a lot of facets in our life, a lot of time I think most of the time as human beings, we have a tendency to feel overwhelmed with so many things and what we do, and we also not only do we have a tendency to feel overwhelmed with a lot of things that life presents us, but we also have these grandiose expectations of ourselves and what we're able to do or what we should be able to do, and most of the time the expectations that we hold of ourselves are completely unrealistic. For what we are actually capable love doing. So if I break that down a little bit more when it comes to organization or mental health is if we just focus on a small detail of something that we are able to control. So if we just focus on a task at hand that's in front of us that might not feel like it might feel like a little bit of a spec compared to the mountain of stuff that we have in front of us. But if we just focus on that spec, and we're able to accomplish that spec, whatever that looks like, instead of looking at it as Oh, great, well, I just did that spec of whatever, and but I still have all this stuff to accomplish, and I feel like such a loser, and I feel like I'm never gonna get it done. That's, that is where that mental health that that negative mental health snowball starts to spiral. But if we are able to condition ourselves and relearn how to just focus on a speck that we've just accomplished, and give ourselves the credit for focusing and planning, and I actually accomplished this small task, and I feel really good about that time, what was it like for me to accomplish that I finally was able to do it, it felt really difficult to get into headspace to do it. But I finally did it. And you know what, I feel really good that even though it's just this spec, that I accomplished something. So because I've accomplished that now, what can I layer on top of that, and this is just an example that can be applied globally to everything that we do. So really cutting down on those expectations, and really getting clear with yourself on what you expect yourself to be able to do versus what you're actually capable of doing in the moment. And understanding that there are things in life that we have absolutely no control over and focusing on those things that we can control. What can I do something about how can I make a plan to do something about that? And really making getting a little bit more clear on that, if that makes sense?
Stephanie
Yeah, it makes absolute sense. It's starting. It's that starting with what you can see what you can feel the the reward system of the right now versus of the you know, what's to come? What, you know, what, what you can't control? Yeah, absolutely. And I see that a lot with, especially with physical items that people have collected over the years that all of a sudden, it's this regret, it's like, if I should have done this, and you know, in the past, but it's like, well, you can't control that any longer. It's already happened. The in now right now is what will propel you going forward and save you the sanity of, of not being able to control all those things like that, I think, gets people a lot of times into the trouble spots of of the what ifs and all that, you know, you and I have talked about this, what I've said you just can't control. So absolutely,
Suzanne
I was gonna say to just to add on a little bit to that is that that's a good point with the, with the regret or the what can I control? Or what if I should have done this? I could have done that. And kind of taking a step back when you get into that spiral and asking yourself, How is focusing on that right now helping me to move forward? How is sitting in that place of regret helping me to move forward with what I am able to do right now? And and getting clear about that? Because most of the time when you sit with that question, most of the time, you're gonna come up with the answer of it's not, it's not helping me, it's just pulling me backwards. And I want to be projecting myself forwards. So always getting crystal clear on your thoughts. And recognizing that your thoughts are just that they're just thoughts. You don't have to agree with them. You don't have to condition yourself to align with them or fall into that space where those thoughts lay, you can just observe them for what they are and choose how to how to navigate through them.
Stephanie
Oh, I love that. I love that. Okay, so speaking of the thoughts, this is, I think, a hurdle for many of our community and many people that this is all great, this is all great advice. And they love it, and they're here for it. But they can't help but they can't help it, you know, the feeling of I understand that those are just my thoughts like okay, so So what next? What are some options for people that are just so lost in the thoughts that they understand that are just thoughts, but they just don't know how to what to do from them. And this is this episode is also devoted to showcase that there's more than one way to get help to do things to get to the end result that you're looking for. Some people take this path, a path a path B, and there could be several and I think sometimes we don't know what we don't know. So let's talk a little bit about what kind of help people can get where they can get help, like what kinds of help are out there for someone who you know, is just would like to, to get a little a little more help from a professional in this field.
Suzanne
Yeah, so I think now with everything that we have, in terms of technology and things like like that there's so many options. And there are there is certainly something in terms of a form of therapy or coaching or support for every buddy for everybody's walk of life for everybody's schedule and for everybody in terms of what they can and can't invest into something like this. So I think the first, the first thing that I'll say is, you know, a traditional therapy. So I do traditional psychotherapy in New Jersey and traditional therapy, when I talk about that, it's really, it's really talk therapy, it's it's processing, what you're going through, going to talk to someone, and having having a very, very neutral perspective on what you're going through somebody who has the capacity and ability a licensed mental health professional, who has the capacity and ability to hear you with an empathetic ear and give you that safe space where you can be heard, and also help you navigate through and figure out how to move forward from all of those things that are that are blocking you that that person also has the capacity to refer out to other resources, if they see that there's something that's going on that might be bigger than just a thought process, right? If there's something that requires another set of professional eyes, they can certainly refer you out. There are so many different types of of therapists, since psycho therapists out there too, which always is a big question that people have. So there are, you know, licensed clinical social workers, there's psychologists, there's licensed professional counselors, all of these people, you know, the most important thing is, when you recognize that you want to take that step, and you want to work with a mental health professional, my strong advice is to call around and get on the phone, ask people for referrals, ask friends for referrals, ask your general practitioners for referrals, and get on the phone and interview people. Because if you are going to take that step, with your time and with your finances, and with your energy to want to get that extra help, you need to feel connected to that person. And there is nothing wrong with picking up the phone and saying hey, can I can I can we have a complimentary conversation for 10 minutes? Or can I come in or even going in and having an initial session and seeing and feeling out the energy and asking them questions about how they work with clients, because it's not only about you know, it's about you finding the therapist, it's going to be the fit for you. And you can find somebody who is the most world renowned, credentialed person, but if you don't connect with them, or you don't feel like there's a good energy between you two, the therapy probably isn't going to work. So that's probably the best piece of advice I could get anybody. And then of course, with that said, there are, I don't know how much you want me to go into this. But there's, there's different kinds of, you know, therapist, so I'm the type of therapist where I will, I will switch and change how I'm going to work with a client based on what the client is presenting to me. So if I have somebody that's coming in and talking about, you know, wanting to process childhood trauma, and they're an adult, I'm going to have a very different approach than somebody who's coming in and saying, you know, I have, I have all of these goals in mind, but I just can't get past this one obstacle, I will work very differently with that person, I won't work with them the same way I'd work with somebody who wants to process childhood trauma. So there's all different kinds of modalities, there are things out there called, there's treatment forms called cognitive behavioral therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, just to give a quick synopsis on what that is, it's really understanding your thought process, and gaining and working with a therapist who can teach you skills and strategies to work through those thoughts that you're having, and how to switch and change those thought patterns into a more productive space. That's a very brief description or loose description of that. But that's basically what you're doing, it's more of an action based type of therapy. Whereas processing childhood trauma might be more what we call psychodynamic therapy, where we're going to really talk about childhood and how these things impact your adult world. So and there's all different kinds of therapies in between, it really is just a matter of, I think, interviewing somebody, when you decide that you want to go see somebody and asking them what their treatment approaches and how they would treat you based on what you're presenting with. Oh, that
Stephanie
that was so helpful. And I know our community is going to love that because I think that it these are the topics that come up when when you're trying to you know, better you know better yourself better your life, which is really what organizing and productivity is right you're trying to like better your space and and find that peace within you and your surroundings. And I think that when you go through some of these motions and some of these exercises of the typical, very popular enough decluttering or we talked about sorting, or we talk about the bins, there are traumas that start to come up that you didn't even know you had maybe you why you haven't been able to let go of something that is in the bucket more of that family childhood trauma therapy for says, Okay, I just I realized that I have may have something else that's more neurodivergent geared towards that, you know, my learning processes is just different than then if you had that the necessary trauma. So I think and hope that what you have have said at least gives our listeners some understanding that everyone's different. The trial and error, error and everything, but especially when it comes to mental health is really important. You are your own your biggest advocate, your biggest cheerleader, but that trial and error is, is kind of it's okay, like, not, you know, figuring out if this therapy, this type of therapy works over another is part of the process. So I absolutely love it. I had a friend who recently told me that they were trying to balance between the oversimplification of getting help, you know, of therapy of like, self help, and balancing that and understanding that therapy is a journey. It's not supposed to fix all your problems in one sitting. Yes. You no pun intended, no pun intended. Yeah. But that that balance and, and I hope that more and more people understand that it is a journey to go through and, and hope that Yeah, yeah, I understand that a little more. Can you talk about that? And a little bit about like that balancing of, yeah, that journey for somebody?
Suzanne
Yeah, I think and I think that's a great, that's a great point to bring up that it's when we go to when we are going to something like a therapy especially, I'm imagining that most of these, most of the listeners are adults. And we haven't been in a therapy, or maybe we were in therapy a long time ago, there, there is a lot that we have to unpack in that therapists office. And there might be a lot of goals or, or reasons for us going to therapy, because we want to change things in our life. And like anything, we have to align with the fact that it is a process that we're not, we're not necessarily going to walk out of the office, the first time or the second time, we might feel good because we've unleashed or unloaded or finally started talking about the things that have been difficult for us. But we're not going to see drastic, huge changes in in a short period of time. And most therapies. I have people ask me this all the time, when they when they have an initial phone call with me to see if you know, they want to work with me. And a lot of times I'll have people ask me, Well, how many sessions do I need? And that is a completely being completely transparent. That is something that I can never answer. Because therapy is a process. And I can't say it would be remiss of me to say to somebody, well, I can see you for eight sessions. And because you're presenting with this, we're going to have everything fixed. And you'll be okay in eight sessions. That would be negligent on my part, because it is a process. So when you're committing to go to therapy, which is a very big decision, and you want to start doing that work on yourself for whatever reason, the other piece of it is to understand that this is going to be something that we might not be able to put a time stamp on necessarily, I'm going to have to jump in and commit to this for however long this takes. But that doesn't mean that I can't see shifts and changes and transitions. Also along the way. And that's the therapists job is to help you recognize what is different about where you were the third session versus where you were the first session, because that's part of the process as well. So being able to, again, have that expectation that when I start to do this process, it is going to be it's not going to be speedy, it's going to take some time for me to get to where I want to get to. And I would say this as well. If you have an initial phone call with somebody or you get on you know, you have a first session with somebody and they say that they can change it, you will be okay in 10 sessions or an eight sessions or in six sessions, you might really want to ask a lot of questions about that, because I don't know, depending on what their modality is, I don't know that that is going to be effective for most people, right? I think the majority of people, it's going to take a long, a longer time. And just really quick, one more thing I want to say about that is there are people who start therapy, and everything is going great. And there's also an expectation of when I leave my therapist office, I'm supposed to feel great, I'm supposed to feel really good I'm supposed to write. But most of the time, what happens here is when we start to unpack the things that we've been holding on to think about it as things of like are stuck in this like dark room. And this dark room hasn't been touched for months or years. And it's so dusty and there's cobwebs and just think about that, right? And as I start to talk about this, the things in the room start to shift and when this thing is in the room start to shift, it starts to get dusty and it starts to get uncomfortable and I'm coughing and I can't really say in the depth. So I start to feel uncomfortable. And I figured if I walked into this room and I started shifting things around when I left the room, I would be totally I'd feel totally good and fresh. But in reality when I leave the room I have all this dust and soot on over me. So that's the process of therapy, when I start to unpack the hard things and talk about the hard things, I might leave the office feeling like garbage, I might not feel that great when I leave the office. But that is a key component to your work, because that means that you are getting uncomfortable, you are making these shifts to allow the change to start to come forward for you. And that is also a lot of times where most people choose to drop out of therapy, because the expectation I have is they're supposed to feel good every single time they leave the office. Sometimes when you start talking about the hard things, you don't really feel that good when you leave the office. And this isn't to discourage anybody. This is what anything that's uncomfortable, right? We have to get uncomfortable with something before the change starts to happen. And that's just something that I think is really important to to talk about and for people to conceptualize.
Stephanie
That's it. I mean, that's exactly why this podcast, came to fruition to be quite honest, it's to talk about the realism behind what goes behind all of these topics that we that are parallel to the goals of becoming more organized and being more productive. Like there are other elements and parts that go into it, that we don't talk about that we against, oversimplify we party it up, whether it's because of a magazine or in social media, so, so no, I think that this is what we should be talking about. And I'm very grateful that you brought it up in this way and those that are like, hey, it's going to be you know, it's okay to feel this way. Because it's normal, you know, in talking about like it that may or may not happen for you, you might leave on the Zoom, maybe there's people that leave therapy, you know, fine all the time, I don't know, but but just know that that is that is unique to you. And that could happen and to not, you know, to fear unnecessarily, like the bad and the ugly, that is part of the journey, which I think is beautiful to have and to have those options.
Suzanne
Absolutely.
Stephanie
So okay, so here just to quickly wrap up in if our listeners just so they know, you know, this is a very, like mental health one on one overview. You know, Suzanne has an amazing social media account on different channels that she in, she goes into more details with some of these topics. So she'll share where you can definitely find her. But just know that this subject matter is just to get us started with this conversation, we'll dig a little deeper into some of the niche of kind of mental health and the different paths that the people could take or be discovering but but just know that you have options you have people that you can see that you can work with alongside in your organizing and productivity journey that if something comes up that you didn't do as well as you did last year, when you're creating new habits and something is not sticking something doesn't feel right, or it's not looking the way that you want it to no matter how hard you try, just know that it may not be you, it just might be that you need a little bit extra help or somebody or some other mechanism for your for your solution here are for your journey as you go forward. So just don't we have options. Okay. All right, Suzanne, so let us know where can we find you because she's has amazing content out there that I think everybody should be listening to. But where can people find you?
Suzanne
The best place to find me is Instagram. So it's it's at anxiety underscore Alchemist is on Instagram and I have the same handle on Tik Tok as well. And just to throw it out there to another place, you can find me which isn't necessarily social media, but it's a free resource for anybody that's looking to get their feet wet and mental health. It's a free resource that offers free mental health classes. And the classes are conducted by mental health professionals. So I host a class on there as do others, mental health professionals across the country, and it's called Change your algorithm. You can find that on Instagram and the website is actually change algorithm. That's how you find it. But there are free classes. It's 100%, free 100% Anonymous, and it's a wonderful resource for those who are looking to get their feet wet a little bit and learn a little bit more about some mental health stuff.
Stephanie
Okay, well, Suzanne, thank you so much for your time today. It was it was very educational for me, I got some great new resources as well. Appreciate your time. And everybody go check out Suzanne wherever you can find her on all the social media platforms. And thank you again and have a wonderful day CYNTHIA And thanks again. Thank you think thank you for listening to the organized and productive podcast with the organized Flamingo. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love it if you'd leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. It helps with letting people know that we're here. For full show notes and resources head on over to the organized flamingo.com/podcast Happy organizing!