57: Dealing with Anxiety: A Conversation with Dr. Lauren Cook
In this episode we welcome guest Dr. Lauren Cook to discuss anxiety. Dr. Cook, a clinical psychologist, author, consultant, and speaker, shares practical insights on handling anxiety in the context of organizing and productivity. The episode explores Dr. Cook's book, “Generation Anxiety: A Millennial and Gen Z Guide to Staying Afloat in an Uncertain World,” emphasizing the importance of empowered acceptance and taking tangible actions to live a meaningful life despite anxiety.
In this episode we talk about:
- Empowered acceptance, emphasizing the need to accept and navigate anxiety while still pursuing a meaningful life
- Tips for those dealing with generational anxiety and explores the complexities of setting boundaries and maintaining self-care in caretaker roles
- Tips on how to embrace discomfort when letting go of possessions, and making intentional choices
Mentioned in this Episode:
Book: “Generation Anxiety: A Millennial and Gen Z Guide to Staying Afloat in an Uncertain World” by Dr. Lauren Cook – Amazon Storefront HERE
Where to find Dr. Lauren Cook online:
Web: https://www.drlaurencook.com/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/dr.laurencook/
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Review the Transcript:
Stephanie
Hey friends, and welcome to our next episode here at organized and productive the podcast. I'm Stephanie, your host, and today we have a very special guest, Dr. Lauren Cook, she is talking to us all about anxiety, and what to do about it when that comes into play. More specifically, of course, since we talk about organizing and all things organizing and productivity, she is talking to us about what happens when those feelings arise, what is something that you could be doing about it? When those feelings do come up? She is a clinical psychologist, she is an author. She is a consultant, and speaker and talks all about the mental well being of people of when we are in just in our everyday lives, right. And so she's a very practical person, she understands that these things happen and are happening to us. And so she and with us, and so what can we do about it. So she just wrote a book as well called Generation anxiety. If you haven't read it, I would highly recommend it. Even if you're not the generation that she she talks about the most in the book. The book is it's the subtitle is a millennial and Gen Z guide to staying afloat in an uncertain world. And even though in the book, she does focus on that generation, I promise you, all generations can get something out of it. She's just such a practical person. And she was just perfect for this episode. I met her a once upon a time back in the app called clubhouse came across her her content and her values and the way she approaches these very, very tough conversations and very tough feelings. And I loved her approach. And I think she's a wonderful person to be talking to our community about this. So check out her book, I, you know, you have those books that you read, where you highlight the important quotes, and especially, you know, since I do the podcasts and stuff, so once in a while, I'll highlight things that I want to bring to you. And this is one of those books that I swear I could have just highlighted the entire book. And then you know, which would have defeated the whole purpose of highlighting, but that's how good it was just because she gives so many good examples that I think are relatable for, from what I have heard from clients from the community. So I hope you enjoy the conversation with Dr. Lauren cook. Welcome to the organized and productive podcast with the organized Flamingo. I'm your host, Stephanie, a professional organizer and productivity experts ready to explore the right organizing and productivity solutions for you. Yeah, well, then let's go. All right, wonderful. Well, as everybody knows, we dive right into with our guests. And I'm so happy that you're here. Dr. Cook, this has been a dream of mine to have you on the podcast, even before I had the podcast, to be honest, are just so amazing. So we are just going to dive right in it. And the first question I'm going to have for you is What does inviting mean to the average listener? listener? And when is it a cause of concern? Like, let's talk about the elementary version of anxiety,
Dr. Lauren Cook
literally. So anxiety really, at its core, it comes back to control and a fear of not being in control. Right. And sometimes we can want to control so many different things, whether it's the possessions in our house or relationships. But in essence, working through anxiety is realizing oh, there's a lot I actually can't control in my life and that journey of making peace with it. Now to your second piece of the question, when do I know if it is maybe problematic, or I might need help for this. Really a hallmark of it is the worrying feeling out of control. We all have worries, right? We all have things sometimes that keep us up at night a little bit. But when the worrying feels out of control when it's affecting our sleep, when we're noticing it's been happening longer than six months, that it goes beyond just a life change. If we're noticing more restless, we're on edge. We're noticing physical symptoms, right? Like oh my gosh, we could talk so much about like GI issues and stomach issues that relate to anxiety. Anxiety often very much manifests physically. So if you're noticing physical symptoms, these can all be cues, the anxiety is running amok, and we might benefit from some support.
Stephanie
Okay, all right. So that's where we're at. We're gonna start from here. So how can someone differentiate between disorganization due to a personality trait? Or you just don't know how, and disorganization because it's either anxiety induced or it's or vice versa, whichever comes first, like, how can anxiety affect people's organizing journey and decluttering or any of those?
Dr. Lauren Cook
So one of the biggest features of anxiety is that it leads to avoidance because anxiety is uncomfortable. We don't want to feel it right. And especially with something like organizing, we have to actively face that discomfort, right? Even though we know on the flip side going through that process, it can feel really good But starting out on the journey can feel very uncomfortable. So a lot of us we avoid we put off, let me not deal with this. And then the piles just build up and up and up, right, and then it feels even more overwhelming. So this really leads into a very negative feedback loop for people where they see that the more avoidance they do, the harder it feels to begin the organizing process. And then it just it cycles from there.
Stephanie
You mentioned in your book, which we'll talk about in just a second, too. But you mentioned in your book, the OCD piece with anxiety. And can we talk a little bit about kind of the relationship between all of these, I guess, sides or silos?
Dr. Lauren Cook
Yeah, yeah. So we were just talking about this before we hit record, right that it's really interesting. You look at the DSM, the Diagnostic Statistical Manual that we use for diagnosis anxiety has its own section, right? That's where you see things like social phobia, social anxiety, in essence, generalized anxiety, panic disorder, agoraphobia, people who struggle to leave their homes or be in big spaces. OCD is actually in a whole different set of the DSM, where we also see things like skin picking, body dysmorphia, hair pulling, and data hoarding disorder. So there's a framework that is happening here. And that's that's not by happenstance that we see that really in essence with OCD, obsessions, compulsions, you see the brain really getting into this obsessive state, right. And it can be all kinds of different things. And then we often want to carry out this compulsive behavior, and that we think is going to relieve our anxiety make us feel better. But the problem with this is that it just perpetuates the cycle even more. And this is what can happen with hoarding, for example, where people can feel these obsessive thoughts, right, they feel like I need to keep these things. There's so much attachment to these things. If I let go of these things, I'm going to have a lot of pain with it, right? And it's really wanting to avoid that pain. So so much of the work is teaching folks, we can sit with the distress of this, it is okay to feel discomfort in our brains and bodies. We've been so socialized I think, especially in the last 50 years with everything from McDonald's Happy Meals, be happy, right? Don't feel uncomfy discomfort. And yet a lot of life is about experiencing discomfort. So so much of the work I imagine you do Stephanie with your clients is helping people learn that it's okay for us to feel a little bit of that uncomfortableness. When we're making some changes and adjustments. That's how you really start to break that reporting cycle. And also that OCD cycle, in essence, it's sitting with discomfort, so good,
Stephanie
okay. And if they're sitting with uncomfortableness look different. And I'm assuming it can, but what, with different generations? And if so, how? How does that different between the different generations, like if you're younger versus older? Oh,
Dr. Lauren Cook
I mean, it's different generationally, it's, so everybody has their own unique flavor of anxiety, right? Interestingly, the most common anxiety diagnosis is actually phobias. So, and I, myself am very open about my own experience with a meta phobia, which is a phobia of vomit, it's real fun to work with. But, you know, it does look so different for different people sometimes, like, especially as we're talking a little bit about recording today, the anxiety can be very much attached to physical things, right to possessions, we can attach a lot of worth and meaning to the these things. And actually, we can get a lot of comfort out of these things. So to not have them can feel very threatening to our psyche. And in fact, I heard the other day 40% of people, adults have some kind of security blanket cuddly that they sleep with. I may be guilty of this myself, Stephanie, you too. You too. Okay. I feel less alone, when I heard that. I was like, kind of makes sense. So we can attach a lot to that, right? A lot of times I see folks where their anxiety is very physical. I mentioned that in the beginning of the show where they may experience panic, they may experience a lot of nausea. I mean, we see that 60% of people with IBS also have generalized anxiety disorder. That's not by chance, I don't think and then you have books where the anxiety especially for young adults, it can be much more social. They have anxiety about speaking up in class, they have anxiety about dating. Fascinating trends right now happening within Gen Z, you see their dating numbers, plummeting, like the amount of sex that high schoolers are having right now is not what it was when you and I were in high school. A lot of that is tied to social anxiety and especially Gen Z not getting the same level of socialization and social skills that previous generations had. Yeah,
Stephanie
that is very interesting. And I can see. So I see it more in the the different generation, and then they're passing on their generational anxiety, which you talk about in the book. So how is that? How do you see this playing out with the generation now, you know, whether it's Gen Z, or just kind of the younger generations, I guess, and then passing the and then just having to be careful about passing it on? Or how, how do you see this all play out? Whether it's for physical stuff or not? Because I think sometimes they're tied together. Yeah,
Dr. Lauren Cook
I do write about this a lot in the book about generational trauma, and really interesting study that came out a few years back about how, you know, older generations are trying to protect younger generations by saying, these are all the things you should be aware of, these are the things you should be scared of look out for. And while this was done with very good intentions, what they found is that those kids who receive that kind of information, had worse mental health, because they were just on hyper alert all the time. And we saw that, you know, there was a lot of privilege that happened for kids, where maybe there was not generational trauma in their families, and they grew up kind of seeing the world a little bit as their oyster, you know, with their rose colored glasses. They actually had better mental health. So that's hard to sit with, right? Because you look at the realities of folks who have endured trauma. And we have to validate that experience, right? Like, it makes sense that they are trying to protect those coming after them and their families. And yet, we also, is there room for the both end of looking at the strengths of still holding hope in the world, right? That there can be good things that can happen there can be changed, that happens for the better, so that our kids don't grow up automatically assuming the world is at that place. People are not here to support me. And then they, you know, show up differently in the world. So that's, that's a really complex study. That is like, it's tough to sit with the realities of that. But I think we do need to take a look at it. And I would say like, also in this, we need generations to come together, we need more generational connection, you look at the fact that Gen Z like does not even want to answer a voicemail. Like if you knew the amount of times I give my clients exposures to just call their grandma. So we need more connection with you know, people of all different ages on both sides. I just heard today actually on an article that we are more likely to have global catastrophe in the next 10 years due to misinformation and disinformation than a climate crisis. And that tells me we've got to be having more conversation with each other so that we're seeing less of this division. Yeah, there's two
Stephanie
things that you talk about to in the book that are tied to this. And that's the different layers, like you just mentioned, that there's those cultural layers, whether you were in a bracket that you have extra layers to work to address this. And just not be naive, that it's like a one answer to all that there are different layers, way more layers now, whether it's cultural differences, generational differences, and all that. And that that is a thing. And to be aware of that, that I think for so long, we just always assumed it was when it was me know, my parents were like that they grew up in the grandparents, whether it's depression, or but that's like very, very cultural based. I mean, if you grew up with the parents that didn't grow up in the economic times of the US, or the United States, as we, you know, we live here, but if that didn't happen, they're bringing their own layers. And so I love that you talk about being aware of those things for yourself and your community around you. So I love that. And it's like, sometimes it's physical stuff and sometimes mental stuff. So that you address that. Okay, so as we talk about the kind of the lack of a better word baggage that may come from, from this and that people are carrying that could potentially be carrying physically, mentally, all that, what are some tips that you would have for people that are experiencing this really heavy load of I want to move and make progress in, in my organizing journey, but it's more than just stuff organizing, just like I want to be like feeling free, feeling lighter, which is really what organizing it is being able to find the things you need when you need it and you need that lightness to it right. What are some tips that you have for some people that are listening that are feeling this to their core that they have this type of anxiety? Or what are some resources if they if they're listening, thinking I think it's deeper than just the declutter Quick Fix decluttering session? Yeah,
Dr. Lauren Cook
yeah. Okay, few things here, I write about this a lot and generation anxiety. And this this idea of empowered acceptance, which is very counterintuitive to people, a lot of people are so set on trying to make their anxiety go away. And they may even be using organizing to try and do that, right, what is one more thing I can do to stop my anxiety, and then feeling so disappointed when that doesn't work? Right. So it's actually learning to accept, you know, what, I do feel anxious sometimes, or a lot of the time, and that's okay. A lot of my work with folks is actually walking them through the grieving process of that. Oh, you mean, I'm gonna feel anxious, like throughout a lot of my life. And I'm sure you have those conversations with your clients, too, of like, oh, organizing may not always be a quick fix to the discomfort. It's learning to accept, like, yeah, I feel anxious, I feel sad sometimes. And I can still live a meaningful life. Like that is the key message. Do not let your anxiety stop you from living your life, right? I write a lot about that of like, my anxiety around, you know, with vomit around being pregnant and having a baby like, and if you don't struggle with this, you can listen to this and be like, Girl, what is your issue, get over it. But anxiety is not rational, right? Hoarding is not rational, this anxiety can be so powerful that it defies logic sometimes. And it's really saying to ourselves, you know, what, I do feel this way. And I still choose to do this next other thing in my life, that's where the Empowered piece is really important. You have to take action. I'm a big behaviorist as a psychologist, mindset is not enough. You can't think yourself into organization, you can't think yourself into just taking that next goal that you want to do, you have to actually physically do the steps. And so that's where I'm always inviting my clients of like, what are the tangibles we can do, because that's how we actually get the brain to buy in that we can make chains. It's where we actually show ourselves that we made the change, like
Stephanie
the actual doing, where would you recommend people? Okay, if they feel that this is clicking? What are some resources? Where would you send people to just get that either whether it's diagnosed or help, and of course, I know you're available and your book is available, but like, what are some key words that people could look up or go to? If they're feeling like this is a trouble spot for
Dr. Lauren Cook
them? So many good things, okay. And yes, I am in the process of right now just licensed in California, but it's really cool. You know, women psychology, we have this thing called sai pact, where you can get your license in other states. So that's exciting how we're starting to see telehealth totally transformed the field of psychology, Psychology Today, therapy, Dene, lots of really great search engines to find providers. So I really recommend people do that. If people go to my page on Instagram at Dr. Lauren cook, you can see all kinds of different resources listed there that I really recommend people check out. I will say this, because I think within the field, it's very westernized, right of like, go to therapy or get medication. And both are obviously great things. But I think we're missing so much of talking about generational wisdom and cultural wisdom, different things that work for different people, right? Everything from acupuncture, chiropractor, sound baths, all these different things. Use these to your advantage. I will tell you, the person who helped cure my panic attacks, not cognitive therapy. It was my naturopath, Dr. Sarah Norris, I give her shout outs all the time, because she really helped me get my body and my gut back in check. And so much of anxiety is so physically based. I mean, the research coming out about the gut brain connection, everybody read this as your brain on food by Dr. Money I do, if you struggle with this, we're just at the precipice. I think they've seen, what we eat, what we drink, how this affects how we feel in our bodies and our anxiety. So it may even look like for you talking to a nutritionist, talking to a naturopath, getting your bloodwork done all these different things to get data on your body. It's not just healing the neck up, we want to do a holistic approach to our healing.
Stephanie
I mean, I'm over here if you're not watching us, I'm just like shaking it. Yes, if I had a pom pom, I would be raising that as well. Yes, yes. And it's finding so much about yourselves. And since we have quite a bit for one of our last questions here, since we have quite a bit of caregivers, caretakers not just as a rental role but also caring for Um, elder generations, you know, the sandwich generation, if you will, since we have quite a bit of less listeners, a question that I got asked, that came directly from them was, okay, you know, I'm in a good spot with my journey. But now I've either inherited or I'm inheriting things we help quite a bit of people with with that, whether their loved one is alive, you know, or, you know, has has passed, but the feeling of anxiety from other generations like is that some so if your children or your parents need help, because they've got the anxiety? Is this something that you would suggest they approach? You know, if you'd like some quick tips, I know it probably we could go like, that's a whole episode of its own. But if they're if it's the caretaker, what is like an advice that you would give them so they could just start this journey in their, their health
Dr. Lauren Cook
a little more? Yeah, we could talk about this one all day. And let me just start by saying it is complicated. It is not a one size fits all approach here. Every relationship is different, right? Because you may be trying to set boundaries with, you know, the person you're helping taking care of, and they're like, No, you can't do XYZ, and then you kind of feel like your hands are tied, right? So Oh, yes, sure, we can see on the surface set boundaries with your loved ones. We know realistically, that is hard to put into action, right? So a lot of times, it looks like the self care for yourself, sometimes having what we call a little bit of a healthy detachment. And knowing that it can change and will change as the relationship as time evolves, right? But having a healthy detachment of like, okay, I want to help you in this. I want to respect your autonomy in this too, right? And how can we still kind of meet in the middle in a way where I'm not getting overly enmeshed in this relationship, I'm still looking after my own self care, but also not feeling taken advantage of at the same time. And that can mean some uncomfortable conversations. But I will say this in all of it, don't avoid, because a lot of times, we can avoid having these uncomfortable conversations, because we don't want to make someone mad. But then if we don't even have the conversation to begin with, then we're not getting data about what we can do to move forward. Right? And it may not be the answers we want, but at least we know the answers. A lot of us were playing these conversations out with our loved ones without actually having them. So give yourself the chance to at least have the conversation and then you can adjust based on the data you're getting. If all of that I don't know if any of that makes sense. Oh, Trump knows.
Stephanie
I just could think of so many examples where like, you would have been like, did you even ask them? Did you you know, I've, you know, had so many amazing clients and people I'm in and they have like, these thoughts, which are all very valid. But I can now with you saying that comment, I couldn't even see you saying, Well, if you ask them, they may be ready to release and let go and get help. And you just are so you know, you're so careful about asking or, you know, whatever may have happened in the past that you don't want to and you have no data to go off of. So
Dr. Lauren Cook
people surprises all the time. Yeah.
Stephanie
That's so good. Okay. Well, we could go on forever. So in for anyone that doesn't know. So she, she, I love for you to talk about your book really quick, and what the book is all about which I kind of give some hands in the intro. Just so everybody knows, I basically highlighted the entire book. This is one of those books that it was pointless for me at some point to just highlight because I just wanted to call it like, you know, highlight and sticky note everything. And at that point, it was just so good that that it was just worth my highlighter, like being all yellow. So what is the book all about? And then we'll head to our favorite questions that we get to ask all of our guests.
Dr. Lauren Cook
I love it. So generation anxiety. It's called the millennial and Gen Z guide to stay afloat in uncertain times. But I really think this book has value no matter how old you are. It's really teaching people how to implement this idea of empowered acceptance, taking action in your life in a meaningful way to still live the life you want to live. Even if you feel anxious, and it's also really breaking down why are we so dang anxious right now? You're not imagining it we are seeing more people struggling with anxiety than ever before. I will say to the book is all about holistic healing like I was mentioning earlier, it is not just taking a cognitive heavy approach which I very much still value, but it's really healing holistically which gets me very excited. So I hope this will be a helpful resource for people. You can buy it wherever you like to buy your books.
Stephanie
Oh, so good. Okay, so awesome. Okay, let's talk about your have a favorite magazine or indoor blog. We're just gonna go right into the fun things here. What is a blog or of Paper Magazine? If you still like the paper that you just have always loved and read no matter what, oh,
Dr. Lauren Cook
this one. So I am a huge tea fan. I love drinking tea. My mom subscribes me to this magazine called Tea Time. And my mom and I grew up, we would always go to teas together. It's still something we love to do. So this magazine, they send you like tea recipes, and oh, it's so much fun. So really get yourself coffee a tea time?
Stephanie
Yeah. Is it? Is it a monthly?
Dr. Lauren Cook
I think it's quarterly but very much look forward to when it arise. How fine
Stephanie
okay, I'm looking it up. I do love my tea, too. So I'm looking that one up. All right. What is it? What is something that you would want people to take away from this conversation?
Dr. Lauren Cook
To embrace the discomfort, all its capacities, the discomfort of tough conversations, the discomfort of letting go of things, right, the discomfort of seeing something we want to buy and not getting it for ourselves, right of really asking like, yep, that dopamine hit when I bite is going to feel so good. Do I really need it and leaning into the discomfort that that comes in all its different ways and seeing how that can actually be such a good thing for us. So good.
Stephanie
Well, Dr. Cook, this has been lovely. I am so excited for everything that's to come. Where can people reach you? Where can they find all of these goodies of information that you have to offer? Yeah, so
Dr. Lauren Cook
I'm at Dr. Lauren cook.com. I do a lot of speaking with companies teams. So if that's something that you want for your group, let me know. All kinds of fun free goodies on Instagram and Tiktok at Dr. Lauren cook.com. But say hi, give a shout out. I'd love to get to know your listeners. Stephanie. I'm a longtime fan. We go all the way back to the days of clubhouse. So this is just so so thrilling for me to get to spend some time with you today.
Stephanie
It will thank you again for your time. And until next time, everybody. Thank you for listening to the organized and productive podcast with the organized Flamingo. If you enjoy today's episode, I would love it if you'd leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. It helps with letting people know that we're here are full show notes and resources head on over to the organized flamingo.com/podcast Happy organizing.