60: Finding Common Ground: Dr. Jackie Black on Navigating Relationship Dynamics

This week we chat with Dr. Jackie Black as she shares valuable insights on navigating the challenges of living with a partner who may not share the same organizing and productivity journey. Throughout the episode, Dr. Black emphasizes the importance of understanding values, style, and temperament in relation to “stuff,” and the significance of open-hearted, respectful conversations to avoid judgment and limitations. Join us as we explore the intersection of relationships and organization, and gain valuable tools for creating harmony within our shared spaces.

In this episode we talk about:

  • Impact of Relationships on Organizing and Productivity
  • Influence of Outside “Stuff” in Relationships
  • Co-creating a home that reflects both individuals' preferences and comfort

About our guest:

  • Dr. Jackie partners with high achieving couples whose relationships are a mess, and they feel disconnected.
  • For the last 36 years, Dr. Jackie has helped more than a 1000 couples in 8 countries.
  • Through her guidance, once distant couples have rekindled their love and affection for each other and experience richer, deeper connections and romance. They express their love and caring more effortlessly, and they feel deeply loved and adored, again.
  • Dr. Jackie is also the internationally recognized go-to relationship professional for couples whose lives have been forever changed and all too often, devastated by living with life-threatening and chronic illness; and couples who are raising an ill child, a child with disabilities or a neurodiverse child.
  • Fun Fact: Dr. Jackie was named by Cosmo as one of their most beloved international love gurus.
  • She is the author of the Cracking the Code series of relationship-focused books.
  • There are four ways to partner with Dr. Jackie: The Connection Booster VIIP Day, 6-month Private Couple’s Coaching Program, 2-day Couple’s Virtual Renewal Experience, 75-minute Connection Breakthrough on Zoom: Closeness Amplified

How to connect with our guest:

The Organized & Productive podcast is brought to you by The Organized Flamingo and hosted by Stephanie Y. Deininger! For those of you who love the thought of organizing & being more productive, but don’t know where to start or constantly up against hurdles that don’t let you advance the way you want to, this podcast is for you!

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https://theorganizedflamingo.com/podcast

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Review the Transcript:

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:00:00]:
Hey, listeners and friends of Organized and Productive, the podcast. Welcome to our next episode. This week, we've got a special guest, doctor Jackie Black. She is a relationship expert, a marriage educator, and board certified coach to couples, and she believes that she can make everyday feel like you're on your honeymoon. So why are we interviewing doctor Jackie Black on an organizing and productivity podcast, do you ask? Well, if you remember last year, we did something similar. But, basically, here on the podcast, we like to approach all the different angles that are related to organizing and productivity. Sometimes they're very straightforward and related to what perfect bin should you get for your closet. Sometimes it's about decluttering.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:00:48]:
Sometimes it's about family dynamics. Sometimes it's about what are the best digital tools that you should be using, what's hot, what's not, and all of our top tips. Right? But sometimes we talk about the emotional piece of it and also the relationship piece of it that gets affected when you are in your organizing and productivity journeys. And this one in particular has to do with living with someone else that may or may not be on the same journey as you are. Again, we try to do and touch this subject at least once a year so that you have the resources that can help you if that is part of what is happening. Maybe there's a disconnect. Maybe you feel like you're more tidy. Maybe you feel like you have been on this decluttering journey, but your partner has not.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:01:36]:
Or maybe you're on the other side of that where you're not ready to let go, but your partner is. This is especially true when you have life changes. They could be every anything from, new marriages and or divorces or death in the family. Maybe your children have moved to a different chapter in their life. So sometimes the partners may or may not be on the same space or same page, and that can contribute to not having a cohesive goal with your organizing journey. So that is why we invited doctor Jackie Black. I met her a couple of years ago through mutual friends on the interwebs. A very close friend of mine, she has a community of women who she supports, and she introduced me to her.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:02:23]:
And I just love the way that she discusses her the relationship piece of couples and partners. And so I thought she was a perfect person to come on and talk about this with all of us. So what she will be doing is so as you all know, we just get straight to the to the conversation. Right? So this is the introduction to who she is, and all of her information is over on the show notes. So if you want to follow along while you're listening and you wanna check her out and and just kind of see what she's all about, her information is in the show notes. We are basically just touching up up on some of how to approach a partner that may or may not be on the same journey with you in your organizing journey, some top tips that she has. And again, we do talk about both sides where you might be the person that is on an organized journey. Maybe you're minimalist and your partner is not, but we also talk about it when you're on the other side where your partner is that one person and you're not ready to engage in that.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:03:21]:
So there is no blame discussion here. We just talk about the dynamic and conversations that could be helpful to you with your spouse, your partner, or the person that you live with. So enjoy the episode. Here we go. Welcome to the Organized and productive podcast with The Organized flamingo. I am your host, Stephanie, a professional organizer and productivity expert. Ready to explore the right organizing and productivity solutions for you? Yeah? Well, then let's go. Hi, doctor Jackie.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:03:53]:
Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so excited that you're here. As our audience knows, we get right into the nitty gritty of the conversation. Alright. So you work with relationships a lot and in people and couples and partners.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:04:09]:
Right.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:04:09]:
What is what is the relationship between stuff and ourselves and the relationship? Like, how does it all work together? Why are we talking about this, and why is it important?

Dr. Jackie Black [00:04:20]:
Right. Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be here and talk about this. This is very important because people's stuff is very important to The, or it's not important at all. It's so funny that it doesn't really there's no middle about this. So I wanna break it first into 3, buckets that I want people to consider, values, style, and temperament. And the reason I wanna talk about value, style, and temperament when it comes to stuff is that those things are pretty fixed. If you're a minimalist, you've been a minimalist as a kid, and you probably had all your underwear by colors in your drawer folded. Okay? And if you are a collector or you think about I worked for, a CEO of a multinational company, and he shared a little space between the 2 big offices.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:05:21]:
And you could see The side was Eric's side because the papers were all over and on the floor and was called the the Snoopy room or the Mickey Mouse room. I can't remember. And Berry's side of the that little space was neat as a pen. But the thing about the thing about Eric, and if you walked into his office, they had these gorgeous offices. He had stacks of paper all along the window lines. And the thing about these stacks of paper is if you came into the office if I came into the office and asked him a question about a deal, he went right to the top of the stack, the middle of the stack, the bot. He knew exactly where everything was. So I wanna talk about value style and temperament, and I wanna talk about nondjudgment of your partner.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:06:14]:
Like, no judging, no blaming, no inaccurate attributions because those of us who are minimalists and ultra, ultra neat, I just wanna own The. We could easily make attributions about messy, lazy, mindless. Oh, The right. I won't go on. You you you all know who you are out there, and you know the judgments that you make. When you're in a relationship, you can't do that. First of all, it's not accurate because we go back to talking about value, style, and temperament and the way people live in space. And it's not gonna change too much.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:07:01]:
There are ways, and we could talk about that in in a minute, there are ways that you can ask for changes around certain things. But pretty much, you really wanna understand how people live in space and decide for yourself if you're dating if that works for you, that's a fit for you. If you're married and you've been married for a long time and this is a bone of contention, are there stress or strife or upset or arguing or worse around it? I hope that you'll get some insight from this conversation so you could take a step back, take a deep breath, and relax, and really do some soul searching so that you could come up with some things that are really important to you because people are different. And when we focus on the differences, we miss the stuff that is aligned, and we miss the stuff, the uniqueness The we love so much, that yumminess that that caused us to fall in love with each other in the beginning.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:08:08]:
How permanent are these attributes? Or how is it that do you come in in a to a relationship? Do you see this often where people's values, style, and temperament are pretty are pretty set, and you shouldn't need or want to change them? Is that how permanent or not or moldable are those attributes?

Dr. Jackie Black [00:08:28]:
Not very. As we get older, sometimes our values shift or we The drops off and another one becomes important. But they they are pretty static, and we must not expect people to change. But we just can't expect people to change.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:08:47]:
Yeah. And I we a lot too, with bringing other people's stuff into your area, and now it's become yours, whether it's from a loved one that passed. So how does that how do outside influences, in this case, outside stuff that maybe you did not start off with as a relation in the relationship. How does that affect what you're talking about? I'm

Dr. Jackie Black [00:09:09]:
just gonna say 2 things about that. I had clients, who were middle aged, and they got married. And he had 2 the way she tells it, he had 2 white plastic chairs. They were leather. They weren't a fine leather. They were white. The swiveled, had high backs and arms. She hated The, and she used to talk about them as plastic chairs, which, I invited her to really think about stopping because it it was so unkind and so hurtful.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:09:45]:
And he knew that she hated them. He loved them. He had his orange juice in them in the morning and watched the weather. He read the paper. He read books on the weekends. He put his feet up. There was an element. He loved them.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:09:58]:
They were his chairs. He'd had them for a while. So they when they sat down after they worked with me for a while, they sat down together, and they came to a point where they agreed that they really wanted each other to show up in the home. Right? They wanted their home to be reflective of both of them. That took a lot of work, a lot of emotional intelligence. And so that they made this agreement, and I invite all my couples that are going through this to do The, Make an agreement that if you don't both love it, you won't buy buy it. If you come with it, get massively curious. What is it about it? Tell me where you bought it.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:10:50]:
What was the what's the story? Get people's story because you really love the person. And you might hate the chair, but there might be such a sweet story behind the chair. Or in this case, there was so much of him when he was down, right, when he was relaxing, that made him very emotionally available to her when he was sitting in these chairs. And so she was able to then take another another look at the chairs. The funny end of the story is that when they actually moved into their home, all this was happening when they were in our separate spaces. When they moved into their home, he said to her when they were talking about moving and the moving trucks coming, he said, I've decided that I'm not gonna bring the the white chairs with me. And she, again, stayed massively curious. She didn't cheer.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:11:43]:
She didn't wasn't relieved. She said, what changed your mind? Tell me what what happened for you. And that just deepens our connection when we can sort of bypass this stuff and go deeper. I have clients, and her mother recently passed away, And she inherited big chests and an armoire and a mirror that sits on the floor and all of that. So it all came over, got stuffed into their little condo, then it was moved to the garage, but that wasn't good because she was afraid it would be damaged. And I suggested that they really sit down, that they look at the furniture, and they decide it tells stories that the the the woman whose mother passed away, told stories about the furniture and what it meant to her and how she wanted to use it. Nobody had ever thought about how they wanted to use it. You You know, how do we wanna incorporate it into our lives, into our stuff? And it turned out that she didn't wanna get rid of it, and she didn't wanna use it either.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:13:02]:
She was still in the place where she wanted to have it and honor her mother, but she really didn't want to take their chest in their bedroom out and then replace it with the mother's chest. Right, when that became a question. Well, what about would that would that feel good to use it in that way? And she said, no. We bought our bedroom for so do you see what happened? So when people are actually talking about what's going on inside, what's going on emotionally, and you take it off the plane of looking at the chair or the chest, there are so many possibilities, and that's one of the takeaways that I want people to have from this conversation The it's not about The stuff. It's deeper, and it's about this stuff, but you can get beyond it, when you really focus on the person and the story and the meaningfulness of The stuff.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:14:00]:
Oh, I love that. So if that is happening now on the other side of the partner, you know, that maybe is observing that their other half is is going through something. What would be some curious, tender, phrases or questions that you would suggest. Of course, people can always reach out to you and, you know, in in your community, in your space, you have an abundance of of phrases that you offer people to use in The relationships. But for this particular when they want to start addressing it with someone where whether it's because they feel like they have too much stuff, they're becoming just it's a it's just too much for the other partner. What would be some tips or phrases that you would suggest that they could use to start approaching the conversation?

Dr. Jackie Black [00:14:50]:
Such an important question. So, I have a client who's a minimalist married to, of course, a collector. And, not bad, not on the floor, but papers in his office on his credenza, on his desk, you know, things laid up against the wall, that and of thing. And so the way that she approached him was she said, I'd like to talk to you, not not I'd like to talk to you. I'd like to talk to you about always tell your partner what it is you wanna talk to them about. I wanna talk to you about what what I consider own it, Imessage feedback. What I consider a lot of stuff stacked in your office. And I I can already tell what I'm just talking to you about wanting to talk to you.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:15:40]:
I can feel my my mouth doing stuff and my eyes rolling. And I want you to know that I'm really trying because I wanna have the most respectful, warm hearted, vulnerable conversation we can have, and it's pretty charged for me. And I'd like to do this let let's know that we're gonna probably have 2 or 3 conversation to be, and you let me know when you're available. Let's I take you know, you come in with your calendar. When can we set the first conversation? That lets the person know. So you're already coming in vulnerable. You're asking for vulnerability, but you're being vulnerable. You're owning that it's a big deal to you.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:16:29]:
You're owning your bias and the difficulty that you're and, I'm still doing that just thinking about, you know, paper stack. But and you wanna own that there are some judgments, but you're you're not gonna voice them. You're you're handling it. You're managing it. That's what adults do. Right? And you're inviting a conversation. So what happened with this couple after a number of conversations, what he kept saying is, I I'm I'm not clear. This is my office, and and I really wanna understand what your need is around my office.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:17:11]:
You know? And he'd say, I don't have papers on the kitchen table. I I don't have I don't have stuff stacked or strewn around our bedroom. And I'm really curious, and and I don't understand. So she said, that is really a good question. And you know what? I'm not sure. Let me let me take some time and think about it and do my own work around it, and then I'll come back to you. And she was so great. And what she realized was that when he was in the office, she didn't mind seeing The stuff because he was there, and it was all part of her experience with him.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:17:55]:
But when he took business trips and he was gone for a day or 2 or 5, then it was overwhelming for her. She had no idea that that was the case until he really pushed back a little, asked her for more information about her, and he could easily agree to The. And he never left stuff out on his bed. He said, I'm gonna need help. I I'm gonna need to know, is it okay if these 5 binders are here standing up? You know, what what how do you really want it to look when I'm not here? He was so generous, so gracious. And so together, over a period of a couple of days, they figured that out before his next trip.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:18:39]:
When it comes to those types of scenarios where it takes some time you know, let's one partner addresses the question and makes them twitch a little, and then there's a reply and then the back and forth. You know, how just for our listeners, just to have an and, how long do these types of things sometimes take? Like, what would is there is there a terminal like, is there a date range where you're you would suggest, like, that might be a little longer, so let's get a pre a professional involved. Like, how how many back and forths of these of what you just described would you say is

Dr. Jackie Black [00:19:17]:
Right? Formal. Not formal. Yeah. After the well, it's all negotiated because what's normal for me might not be normal for you. So it's all negotiated. So, in this case, she knew that she needed to have a change before his next business trip. In other cases, you can say, I'd like to put a time limit on this. I'd like some resolution sooner than later.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:19:48]:
What makes sense to you? What makes sense to me is a week, 2 weeks, 14 days. I I really need to have some understanding in the next day or so, and then we can execute on it. See, it it really depends on what the need is. And when you start the conversation from a very openhearted, vulnerable, respectful place, and you're not gonna judge, you're not gonna criticize, you're not gonna make demands, you're not gonna make inaccurate attributions, then all of a sudden, there are so many alternatives and options that open up. When you come already upset, then you're limited, severely limited. And your partner feels judged and not good enough or shamed, and nothing comes nothing can grow. Nothing can open up and shift in that kind of energy. Does that make sense?

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:20:47]:
It does. Absolutely. If a listener is not ready to address it yet with their with their spouse and whatnot, What are some tips that you would have for them? Now we have spouses and we have partners and people that are from both ends. The one that has the spouse that is different and the ones that know that they are the and that they've been addressed on, you know, and for whatever reason. So what are some suggestions that you would have for both types of parties that they know that the stuff in their space is creating something, a something The is clashing. What would be some some steps for them to take?

Dr. Jackie Black [00:21:27]:
I would start with a deep dive personally and do some personal reflection. What does my stuff mean to me? And walk around your house and tell yourself stories about your stuff. How does it make me feel? What are my values? What's my style? How do I show up in the world? How do I show up in the relationship? How am I living in space? How is my partner living in space that is different? So start personal reflection and temperament. Temperamental differences, always come up. We think about that as people being a morning person or a night person, or I can never be with anybody who needed to have 5 cups of coffee before they could talk. I open my eyes and my mouth at the same time, and I throw open the blinds. I love the sun. So temperamental differences come into play as well.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:22:28]:
After you do a deep dive, then think about what your best case is. You know, wave a magic wand and do some writing or some journaling or some notes on your computer. If I could make wave a magic wand, what are all the things around this topic that I would want to change, and what changes what I want to have? So that you're arming yourself with personal knowledge because we have personal knowledge and partner knowledge. My personal knowledge becomes my partner my partner's knowledge. So the more I know about myself and understand about myself, the more I can help my partner understand me. We cannot choose I mean, you can, but it it it doesn't work. So we don't want to I'll say it that way. We don't wanna die on every hill.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:23:22]:
Right? We have hills we have we wanna die on, but not not every hill. So I'll tell you a cute story. Mark and I had moved into our condo, and we were there a couple of weeks. And The morning, he usually would get up, get dressed, and leave and go into his office first. And then so but I had an early client or something, and I came back to the bedroom for something, and he made the bed. And it was a mess. So 2 things happened. 1, the first thing that and, I I listen.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:23:57]:
I'm not happy to say this. The first thing that happened was I bristled. Right? I was like, oh my god. The second thing was that I was filled with the love and appreciation and yumminess because it was so thoughtful, and we never had a conversation about making the bed. I always make the bed. He used to say that if he get out of the bed to go to the bathroom, when he came back, the bed would be made. I didn't wanna shame him. I didn't wanna hurt his feelings, so I didn't wanna fix it in case he recognized that it was fixed.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:24:33]:
So I let 2 days go by, and I said to him, I'd love to talk to you. Oh, I I said to him immediately as I left the bedroom. Oh my god. That was so sweet. I just love you so much for do and he was beaming. He was so excited, and I didn't wanna ruin that. That was so special. So 2 days later, I said, I wanna talk about making the bed.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:24:58]:
And he said, okay. And he said, you're you you're really gonna want me to do that more often. Right? I said, look. I love that you did that. It made my day and the next day. I feel so seen and so valued, so taken care of in so many ways. Here's what I would love. I would love it if you never made the bet again.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:25:20]:
And he laughed, and I laughed. And he said, I I know it was lopsided, and I couldn't get it. Blah blah blah. So we don't wanna shame our partners. We wanna value them and appreciate them, and then we really want to ask for what we want. And and and he never did. He never made the bet again, which was fine with me. It's my thing having the room look the way it looks, having the bed look the way it looks.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:25:50]:
So I'm not gonna hassle and harangue him to do it my way. I'm simply gonna do it. And this is such a big point. When when couples talk about you don't help, I want you to unload the dishwasher this way, I want you to do this or that that way. If our partners are contributing and they're participating, then it's the contribution and the participation. It's the effort. It's It's the interest. It's the actual action that we love and value that means so much.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:26:25]:
If we don't like the way we're doing they're doing it. We can't ask them to do it differently. They are bringing their way. And if the thing that you want done, me, the bed made, is more important than them making it and contributing in that way, then we have to own that. So so the question is, is this my problem? Is this your problem? Is this our problem? There are many things that Mark did that were so sweet and so lovely that I didn't have that energy around that I had around with that. And I loved that it was a reflection of who he was and how he moved in the world and in his life.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:27:14]:
What I love about what what you've said and the examples that you've placed is that it's almost the, like, the don't let the stuff get in the way of the conversations, which, you know, stuff ends up being that visual of what's probably behind the scenes of whatever you need to communicate. But what I love just of all this is that you're really showcasing that that curiosity to get a little bit more curious. Yeah.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:27:50]:
So Yeah.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:27:51]:
That's been really fun to to listen in on. What would, okay. So we, at the end of our, you know, the podcast and whatnot is because we could go on and on. I'm just right here just listening to her. Just give me all the give me all the tips. Just the tips, but the things to think about. So I hope all our listeners are are feeling the same way. Alright.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:28:13]:
So before we start to unwind with our conversation, we always like to ask our guests 3 questions. The first question is what would you like people to to take away from this conversation? With the second being, if there is something that you really enjoy, is there a magazine or a blog or something, a periodical The you really enjoy reading? We'd love to hear what you what you like to read, what you like to, what you're into, and then, of course, where people can reach you and find you.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:28:41]:
So the takeaway. I want people to focus on each other as honeys, as sweethearts, as partners and cohorts, as teammates, and to make that the centerpiece of all the conversations and to really trust that they will come to a place of agreement. Win win win. I win. You win. We win. And if all those things are not in place after any conversation, you're not finished, and you may need to have another conversation. I win you win, we win.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:29:20]:
And when you're talking about living in your home that you want both of you, you both wanna be committed to cocreating a space that you both love, that reflects both of you, and that you're both comfortable in. The magazine, the first thing that came to my mind Mhmm. Going up in Chicago and living in the desert for many, many, many years and now living in the tropics is Southern Magazine. Southern Living, I think it's called. I I just love the colors and the I I it's just a way of showing up and being in the world that I love. So that would be that would be my magazine.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:30:02]:
You know, funny you say that about what this actually goes with our conversation. I think, Southern Flamingo and The that style also has a lot of history and a lot of that connection with other people that many times comes from relationships. But it just has that intertwined relationships, You know? Anyway, it's a conversation starter as well. So I can see why that's that I I could see why you would feel connected to The that magazine. Okay. Alright. Well, where can people find you? Because there's way more of this that she has on her in her community and all her social media and all her different platforms. You should connect with doctor Jackie.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:30:42]:
So where can people find you?

Dr. Jackie Black [00:30:43]:
The website is the first obvious place, and that's doctorjackieblack.com.dr jackieblack.com. That would be in the first place. And then there are buttons throughout the website about let's talk. Let's connect. Yes. I want this. And and and I I really want to talk. I love to talk, and I love to talk to people about their relationships.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:31:08]:
And I don't enroll anybody in anything unless we have a conversation first. It's Zoom so that we can see each other. It's a little like being in my I call it being in my Zoom office. Yes. So click on that button. Go to my online calendar. And if there isn't a time on the calendar, then email me. [email protected].

Dr. Jackie Black [00:31:30]:
Let me know that you wanna have a conversation, and there's no times on the calendar. We'll just take it off the calendar and exchange a few emails and find the time.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:31:39]:
Oh, the personalization that you have is really nice, by the way.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:31:44]:
Oh, thank you. And and I I don't charge for that. And it's I say it's 30 minutes. I'm so bad about time because if I'm engaged in a conversation with you Yeah. And and I really wanna help you or understand more, The it takes whatever it takes. That would be the second thing. There's website, email me. Oh, Instagram.

Dr. Jackie Black [00:32:07]:
You know, I don't love social media. I probably shouldn't say The, but I love my Instagram, and I didn't have an Instagram until I was active with Clubhouse. And Instagram really is the place that has the best of the best. It's highly curated. Every single thing, that that I say is a quote from my intellectual property. So it really gives you a sense of how I talk and what I think. And so my my Instagram, and that that is at doctor Jackie Black.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:32:41]:
Oh, wonderful. Okay. Well, you know where to reach her. Doctor Jackie, thank you so much for your time. This was enlightening and so lovely. And, again, we could have gone on forever and ever. So don't be

Dr. Jackie Black [00:32:53]:
surprised. Such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Stephanie Y. Deininger [00:32:57]:
Thank you for listening to the Organized and productive podcast with The Organized flamingo. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love it if you'd leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. It helps with letting people know that we're here. For full show notes and resources, head on over to the organized flamingo.com/podcast. Happy organizing.

The Sandwich Generation: It’s Nothing New, Just More Complicated

In the ever-evolving journey of life, certain life phases have always been present—marriage, divorce, moves, parenthood, and caring for aging parents. The Sandwich Generation, individuals caught between the responsibilities of living their own life, and caring for their children as well as their parents, is not a new phenomenon. However, it has become more complicated in our modern world. In this blog post, we'll delve into the challenges faced by the Sandwich Generation, focusing on how it relates to the physical stuff they manage and the importance of mindful decluttering when navigating this intricate balance.

The Traditional Responsibilities of the Sandwich Generation

Historically, the Sandwich Generation has existed, with individuals finding themselves “sandwiched” between caring for their aging parents and raising their own children or other loved ones. In earlier times, the challenges were there, but the complexities we face today, especially concerning physical possessions, have added a new layer to this age-old responsibility.

I should note here that the Sandwich Generation terms (because there are a few terms that branch off the main term) were introduced in the social term in 1981 and were added to the Webster's Dictionary in 2006. This blog post does not focus on the history of this generation but I thought it was important to note.

It's more than just “stuff”: The complexities the Sandwich Generation faces today

As we navigate the 21st century, the concept of the Sandwich Generation has evolved. Now, more than ever, it's about managing not just the emotional and financial aspects but also the sheer volume of physical possessions. With an abundance of “stuff” to handle—from family heirlooms to children's toys and everything in between—organizing has become an integral part of successfully navigating this challenging phase. There is:

  1. Multiplication of Possessions: In our modern world, possessions seem to multiply. Aging parents may have accumulated a lifetime of belongings, and raising children in a consumer-driven society means a constant influx of toys, gadgets, and clothing. Managing this accumulation is a significant challenge for the Sandwich Generation.
  2. Emotional Attachments: Possessions are not just objects; they carry emotional weight. Family heirlooms, childhood mementos, and sentimental items can clutter spaces, yes, but they are part of who we are. Deciding what to keep, what to pass on, and what to let go becomes a delicate task, requiring emotional discussions and thoughtful decisions.
  3. Time Constraints: Juggling caregiving responsibilities with careers and personal lives leaves the Sandwich Generation with limited time. The need for efficient organization becomes paramount to avoid chaos in the face of already overwhelming responsibilities.

How to make it less overwhelming

Having been in this profession for more than two decades, I can confidently say that the top emotions that contribute to the overwhelm of the Sandwich Generation and anyone having to deal with stuff that wasn't theirs are guilt and exhaustion (there are other emotions tied to the overwhelm but these are the roadblocks before taking any meaningful action).

Here are a few tips I have for you to reduce the overwhelm, guilt, and exhaustion and instead find peace and relief.

  1. Create a plan. Please don't miss this step. Assess how you are feeling and talk about your end goals. We have a full episode on our Organized & Productive Podcast exactly about how to create a plan and assess your organizing journey and projects. Episode 001: 7 Steps to Organizing *Almost* Anything gives you an overview and Episode 008: Step 1: Assess. The Power of Planning Ahead provides more detail on how to assess a project before you start.
  2. Boundaries. It can be really easy to want to keep everything in your space, but that just adds to the clutter. Without boundaries, you will get stuck in the clutter. Give yourself clear boundaries of how much stuff you can keep and how much attention you are willing to give to these items. Think about the storage fees, the cleaning efforts, and anything else that comes with keeping things (especially vintage and antique items). Boundaries are what will give you peace in the long run.
  3. Decide what is worth DIYing or Outsourcing. We have a great episode on this titled Episode 006: Should You Outsource or Do It Yourself? which gives you some questions to ask yourself when trying to decide if it's worth outsourcing or doing it yourself. If anything, at least think about this question and make sure that you are thinking about how much it will cost, do you want to do it or it best someone else takes care of it, how much you want to get involved, and how much time it will take.
  4. Bonus: if you have not processed the heavy emotions that come with acquiring clutter and physical stuff that wasn't yours, I would encourage you to see a mental health professional who specializes in these fields. Many pro organizers have the skills and training to coach you but make sure you tell them the emotional attachment is something you need help with.

The Sandwich Generation has always existed, but in the complexity of the modern world, the challenges have intensified. Navigating this phase requires a thoughtful approach to managing not only emotional and financial aspects but also the accumulated physical possessions. At The Organized Flamingo, as well as other pro organizers around the world, guide individuals in decluttering with purpose and heart. We create organized living spaces amidst the overwhelm. If you find yourself in this position, I see you and hope you have found a space within The Organized Flamingo where you feel seen and heard. What question can we answer that will help you through this process? Send us a note or comment here and let's work through this together.

Stephanie Y. Deininger, CPO®, MBA

Pro Organizer & Founder | The Organized Flamingo

 44: Let’s Organize Your Party and Home Decor Closet

In this episode, we’ll guide you through the process of organizing and decluttering your party and home decor closet. So whether you have a small closet or a dedicated room for your party supplies, this episode will provide you with practical tips and strategies to maximize accessibility and maintain an organized party and home decor closet. 

In this episode we talk about:

  • Tips for Easy Retrieval
  • Organizing Your Party and Home Decor Closet
  • Tips for incorporating creativity into organizing your party and home decor closet

Mentioned in this Episode:

Episode 008: Step 1: Assess. The Power of Planning Ahead

https://theorganizedflamingo.com/8-step-1-assess-the-power-of-planning-ahead/

Episode 41: How to Keep Unwanted Critters Out of Your Storage Areas

https://theorganizedflamingo.com/41-how-to-keep-unwanted-critters-out-of-your-storage-areas/

Episode 004: A Different Way To Declutter: Seasonal Decluttering

https://theorganizedflamingo.com/4-a-new-decluttering-mindset-seasonal-decluttering/

Episode 001: 7 Steps to Organizing (almost) Anything

https://theorganizedflamingo.com/7-steps-to-organizing/

The Organized & Productive podcast is brought to you by The Organized Flamingo and hosted by Stephanie Y. Deininger! For those of you who love the thought of organizing & being more productive, but don’t know where to start or constantly up against hurdles that don’t let you advance the way you want to, this podcast is for you!

Review full show notes and resources at

https://theorganizedflamingo.com/podcast

Join our weekly email newsletter for all-things organizing & productivity delivered right to your inbox

https://theorganizedflamingo.com/quicklinks

Download your FREE “Should you Keep It or Toss It?” decision tree https://organizedandproductive.com/keeportoss

Review the Transcript:

Hey organized and productive community and listeners Welcome to our next episode here at organized and productive. I'm Stephanie your host, aka the organized Flamingo. And today we are going to talk about organizing your party and home decor closet. In our typical fashion, how I like to usually do these types of episodes is I like to give you a quick overview when we first start the episode like right now, so that you know what to expect. So if I have a certain amount of tips that I'm giving you, I'll tell you, I have five tips 10 tips today, or I'll give you the overview of what we'll be talking about. So if you're new, that's usually how I do these solo episodes, so that you know what to expect. In today's episode, I'll be talking about assessing your space, which is our step one in our seven steps of organizing almost anything. If you're unfamiliar with that, I will put that in the show notes. It's our it's our framework here at the organized Flamingo of how we usually like to organize kind of the steps of how we'd like to organize with steps two through five being flexible and being interchangeable. So we'll start with that. And I'll talk about how do you assess your party room or your party closet so that you can get it ready for the organizing and decluttering phases. And then we'll talk about some storage solutions that I would recommend things for you to think about when you're storing these types of items. And then we'll talk about like the creative side and how to bring your creative side of organizing into life, and then how to maintain it. So we'll kind of go in that order. Today. I do want to mention that this episode is not so much the seasonal boxes like your Christmas or Halloween or Valentine's Day or whatever holiday that you celebrate, and you decorate for, so that it's not those boxes necessarily. Now, you could have those boxes in the same area or those items in the same area. But those are seasonal decorating seasonal items that we talked about. And it's we do have an episode about seasonal decorating and decluttering. And how to organize that those items. I'll put that in the show notes. But this is more about your day to day home decor hostess type of material, the like the tray like the maybe the the party favor tray that you bring out when you have a party when you have guests over when you have like a special event. Maybe it's for birthday parties, but so more specific to every day party home decor usage, and not so much just the seasonal, if that makes sense. But like I said for you, you may have both of those things in the same room or in the same area. And I'll talk about that too. Because it's all about categorizing it's, it's it depends on how your brain works. And it depends on how you retrieve items, that's going to be the difference here. For most of you, when you go and retrieve your holiday items, you're very much in the holiday spirit. And so that's why we keep these two spaces a little bit different in the conversation, but they could be living in the same space. It's just two different conversations when we're addressing the organizing needs. Okay, so let's get to it. Welcome to the organized and productive podcast with organized grooming go. I'm your host, Stephanie, a professional organizer and productivity expert, ready to explore the right organizing and productivity solutions for you. Yeah, well then let's go.

Okay, so to start off, we definitely want to be stepping back for just a minute right in this in this room, maybe it's a closet. So So for some of you, it's going to be a closet of air or a very big closet, or maybe a room. So we're talking just the area where you host your vases, your you know, the plates that were the paper plates that you have leftover from the last gathering it like those types of items, right? Or the paintings that maybe you switch out in your home, if you're a big enthusiast of of changing it up your home decor. So whatever that space is, you want to step back for just a second, which we always talk about. It's step one, in our seven steps of organizing almost anything you want to just step back and figure out okay, what do I want out of this room, that's going to be really important in this space, it's important to in any space, but this one in particular, because you probably aren't in this space all the time. You're probably only in this space when you're about to host a party when you have people over when you're in the mood to change the decoration. So you're probably not in that space all the time. So the items that you have in there are not on top of mine, like it's not something that you're seeing everyday or touching every day. Now, if you are in an industry that you know you are in that place all the time you're a designer, you're an interior decorator, you're a stager like a home stager, maybe you're even a photographer who uses a lot of drops, then obviously for you, it's going to be a little different because you're in that space all the time. But actually, this conversation can also apply to you. So, you know, don't dismiss the conversation. But if you're not in this space, it's really important for you to try to start with a clean slate. So assess the space, how often are you going in there, take everything out if you can, if you have the time, so that you can see and touch everything that is in there. Okay, so after you step back, and you figure out what what you're working with, this is where you will decide what's most important to you. We talked about this in the seven steps. And you'll determine what if you're looking for like, if you want this room to be pretty, you know, are you looking for the visual just for it to look and feel nicer? If so, then you will head on over to step five, which is find the containers first. So get the system install it and then you will kind of go to the other steps in the process, which is decluttering, and sort and the other steps if for you, that's not really important. Your mission is just more to get a hold of what's in there. Maybe you need to downsize, maybe you need to declutter, maybe you haven't been in that space for a long time. And if that's the case, then your next step is going to be either sort and or declutter, maybe both at the same time. Because for you, you know, you're trying to get a handle for this space, and you haven't been in there for a long time. So you need to declutter and just do some sorting and see what you have, and then get the bins and then find a home for everything. So for you, those are the two steps that will come next, after, you know, stepping back and coming up with a plan. So that is how I would start the whole process. And then we can get to the fun part. So let's talk about the storage solution, some of the tips that I would have for you some of the things that I have seen for that have worked really well for people over the years in some creative organization systems. So for this particular area, the most important thing for the to keep in mind when you're trying to get new storage solutions is the accessibility part, how easy is it to get in and out of the space, and to get the items in and out. That is probably the number one I probably actually for sure the number one hurdle that I hear from clients and from people say that I have the space like my party space, but I can never get to the things that I need when I need them. And especially if it's like a last minute celebration, or maybe you just didn't have the time or energy to pre plan and you're putting everything together the night before. And you go into your that area, the closet or the storage area where you have all of these party supplies and home decor items to decorate and you can't get to anything, or you can't find anything. So my biggest tip for you is whatever system you get, or whatever bin you get, or shelving unit that you get, make sure that it's easy to get in and out of some of the tips that I would have for that is don't go too deep or too shallow or too deep into the shelving or too deep into the drawers. So basically, these need to be a little bit more shorter or shallower type of spaces so that you can easily get to it. If it's going to be in a drawer, then don't go too deep in the drawer. And if you do have deep spaces, sometimes those closets are very deep. Try to figure out a way where you can separate or get something that rolls in and out. There are cabinet rolling cabinets that you can install, so that you can just like bring out the drawer out almost like installing, you know, pseudo drawers with wheels. If you have a closet where there's a lot of floor space, get some shelving units, or rolling carts that you can bring in and out. So accessibility and getting the stuff when you need it as soon as possible is going to be your number one priority in these spaces. Here's a little golden nugget for you. This is a theory that I have had for years, I mean over, you know, 15 years, like a couple years into me starting to organize, I started to observe this and it's become a framework that I use. I've never scientifically proven it. But it's been pretty, pretty right on every time I use this. So basically, when you go too deep into your or your category, so if you go more than three, you know, even up to five, maybe five, but honestly, it's like three layers into you looking for something three layers, like subcategory subfolders then that is when people start to give up and get frustrated and give up on the organizing journey or just get frustrated and no longer look for something. So then they go by it and go by a duplicate and then it just starts to accumulate. What this means is like I'll give you the example of what I mean when you have let's say you have your closet and you have something in a box when you when you're nesting. like think of those, you know, nesting dolls, when you're nesting more than three steps in. So you went into that closet, you opened it up, and then you got the box that right there is two steps in, if now you open the box, and you're looking for something and you have to go to another box to open it, that's another step, that's three or four, and then you know, in layer and layer and layer it. Same thing with folders, like file folders, when you go too deep into your filing system into your category system, you start to lose interest, you get frustrated, and especially if you're doing it at the last minute, or you're in a hurry. So don't go too deep into your storage solution. Okay, so if you can, you know, don't nest more than three layers in so that you can quickly find things. So whatever your storage solution will be, don't go too deep. That's why I'm that's why I say like, if you you have drawers or anything that's too deep or too deep, like in the new shelving like in the back, it's just going to create all these layers of obstacles for you to get to it. So as far as storage solution goes in these areas of your party and home decor closet, just don't go too deep. As far as what type of storage like exact storage solution, this is where your creativity has to come in and what type of person you are, it's going to be a personal preference for you and the people that are using it. Don't forget the people that are using it. So if you're not the only one retrieving items, make sure that this works for them. As far as like clear containers versus colorful containers or using a color coding system or any of that that is going to be a personal preference. For some people. You know, having colorful nonmatching bins or system is too overwhelming. So you will want to go for more of a uniform system that you use in that closet. But if that doesn't, you know, that's not important for you, but you need labels, then of course, get labels. So at this point, this becomes a personal preference. I do talk about the storage solutions over on the episode where we talk about containing the step the containing steps. So if we want to go deeper into that, I'll put that in the show notes. But that you know that point that becomes a personal preference, I will say there's a couple of things that I will I'll give you as things to consider. Don't forget about going vertical, you know, you've you've got vertical space too. So don't just think about the shelvings that are given to you, maybe you've got a door where you can hang something from it as long as it's sturdy or a light item. So don't forget to go vertical. Also, when you are dealing with shelving units, you can also put things to make items in subcategories, you know, so I mentioned don't go too deep into your subcategories, but you can also just go like one things that you can separate. So if you have your vases in one, you know half of the shelf, you can get a divider, a shelving divider, that will separate that from whatever the next items are next to it. And that way you can keep them clearly separated and clearly labeled so that you know where to put them back. So as far as maintaining this area, be okay, so I mentioned this a little bit earlier in this area is probably a space where you're not in it all the time unless you're in an industry where you have to be in it all the time. So this is the area where keeping an inventory is probably going to be very helpful. If you want to go that extra mile go in and either and by the way, in keeping inventory can come in different ways. Some people think it's got to be like written in this Excel spreadsheet and all you know, like a store or like a warehouse or something. And yeah, you can go that deep. I've worked in organizations where we have who have had to do inventories that deep. I've worked for like prop company, propping companies and stuff like that. And yes, if you have the excitement to do this, go for it, but you don't have to, it could also be taking pictures. So once you are done organizing and decluttering and going through all the seven steps of organizing everything, and now you have everything left, you can just take a video or pictures and then put it in your phone under a folder that says the space so your closet, you know home decor closet, party, closet, party and home decor seasonal closet, you know, whatever, hostess with the mostest closet. So that way every time you're out and about and you're trying to figure out what else do I need for my next gathering my party? What am I missing? What would I don't need, then you can just refer to your inventory list whether it's this amazing Excel, Google doc spreadsheet or a picture type of inventory spreadsheet. So definitely an inventory is important in areas that you don't frequent very often and you have a lot of stuff in we actually talked about this in In our household boutique blog post, and household Boutique is basically a place where you go in and and quote unquote shop for your own stuff, it's so it's stuff that goes in there that you've been there in transition to be donated or transitioned to be sold. And you're just not sure yet. So this is a really good area for that. And to keep inventory via like a visual inventory by pictures or in a sheet. And that way, you can always refer to it and see what you have, what you don't have and what you need. So think about doing something like that in these areas that you don't frequent very often, but you need to have, you know, easily available when maybe you're not there all the time. Speaking of areas that you may not frequent all the time, this is one of those areas that you do want to have like a quarterly, maybe if you're you know, every couple of weeks, go in and clean, clean it out, vacuum or just check it out and make sure that there's no critters, no unwanted little visitors crawling around your stuff. I actually talked about this in one of our previous episodes, which I also will link in the show notes and on how to avoid having little critters in your storage areas like this. But you do want to go in and do like a maintenance check, or reminder on your phone or something like that. Because you know, areas that are not frequented that often or sometimes are in the dark or just perfect little nesting grounds. I know that's something that you probably don't want to hear, but it's the truth. And so I just want to make sure that I mentioned it. And then also, if you're in a place where there's a lot of vibrations around that area, you may also want to be checking that out because something may be breaking or moving or, you know, kind of shattering especially if you have a lot of things that are fragile. So make sure you go in and check it out. Because you don't want your stuff to break or get damaged. So make that as a part of your maintaining this space. Okay, so for our takeaways today on this really fun topic, which by the way I love I love this is one of my most favorite places to organize garages are one of them. And the other one is these party and host is with the most is home decor storage places or warehouses where there's a lot of really fun seasonal props for photographers or stagers like I love these spaces are so fun, okay, take aways, step back, and assess, make a plan, go through our seven steps of organizing almost anything so that you can come up with a plan and make the most out of your time when you're organizing these spaces. second takeaway storage solutions, this is where your creativity will come into play, get creative, really have some fun with it. This is a place where you won't be a frequent teen very often. So you want to make sure that whatever storage solution is easy, you can get to it quickly, you it's not too deep, it's not too hard to get to. So think about that. Let your imagination run wild enjoy this really fun space that you have for your hostess and your party supplies and your home decor. So have fun with it. And then have a maintaining checklist of some sort, checking in often clean it up a little bit once in a while so that it doesn't accumulate, you know stuff that you don't want it to and that you are taking care of the stuff that's in there. So those are the takeaways. If you have any questions or you want to show me your party closet, your home decor room,

I'd love to see your propping your prop props area I would love to see it so share it with us tag us at the organized Flamingo and I look forward to cheering you on. Thank you for listening to the organized and productive podcast with you organized flamenco. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love it if you'd leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. It helps with letting people know that we're here. For full show notes and resources head on over to the organized flamingo.com/podcast Happy organizing