21: Avoiding Burnout and Achieving Mindful Organization with Jennifer Bassman
What is Burnout, exactly? How does it affect our lives? Jennifer Bassman, a burnout recovery & burnout coach, is sharing how to identify the root cause of burnout and how practicing stress management techniques can help avoid burnout and increase productivity.
In this episode we talk about:
- What is Burnout?
- Causes and Contributors to Burnout
- Can Burnout be Avoided?
- The Impact of Burnout on Organizing Style and Ability to Stay Organized
- Coping with and Recovering from Burnout
Mentioned in this Episode:
The Burnout Recovery Method Online Course:
https://jenniferbassman.com/courses/
(On Mental Health) Episode 003: Mental Health and Organizing with Suzanne Orlando
https://theorganizedflamingo.com/3-mental-health-and-organizing-with-suzanne-orlando/
Where to find Jennifer Bassman online:
Jennifer Bassman has been researching burnout recovery methods for more than 13 years. She has developed a proven, proprietary method called The Burnout Recovery Method that has helped hundreds of people recover from burnout for good.
Web: https://jenniferbassman.com/
IG: www.instagram.com/jennifer_bassman
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@jenniferbassman
Email List: https://jennifer-jenniferbassman-com.ck.page/d20da678f9
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Connect with Stephanie
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Review the Transcript:
Stephanie
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of organized and productive. For today's episode, we are talking all about burnout, and its impact on our ability to get and stay organized. As you know, you know, we live in a world that's constantly demanding of our time and our energy and attention from juggling our work responsibilities to our personal commitments, it's really easy to get caught up in the never ending cycle of busyness. But what happens when we push ourselves too far? Well, that is where burnout comes in. And burnout is a term that has been popularized as a more recent, but it's been going on for a long time. And I for one, I'm really glad it has more of a title and more of an importance placed on it nowadays, because it is something that I think a lot of us can relate to. And then sometimes we just don't know exactly what to do about it. Like do I go get professional help? Do I just let it ride out? And so for our conversation today, we have Jennifer Bassman, who is a burnout and recovery coach, and she is going to talk about about that, like where when is it a good time to to get additional help? But can you do this on your own? And so I'm really excited about being able to talk about this without making it a huge deal. But also prioritizing and understanding this is a thing. So without further ado, you know how we always do it, we get straight into the conversation, so we don't waste your time so that you can get straight to the nitty gritty. So I'm really excited about today's conversation. Let's get to it. Welcome to the organized and productive podcast with organized for bingo. I am your host Stephanie, a professional organizer and productivity expert, ready to explore the right organizing and productivity solutions for you. Yeah, well, then let's go. Hello, Jennifer. Hello, Welcome. Welcome. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so excited about our conversation today. As you know, and as many of our community and guests know, we go straight into talking about the subject matter of today, our community is prepped with what we're talking about. And today we're talking about burnout, the causes and just how it relates to our life and ability or inability to get organized and more productive. So let's get right into it, shall we, though, again, thank you for being here. And let's get to the what is burnout. Let's go for it.
Jennifer Bassman
We're just jumping right in. I love it. Burnout is primarily about chronic stress. But it also includes emotional overwhelm, physical overexertion, as well as mental overload, the basic definition that I have burnout that I use, and just so we're all working from the same place. And it doesn't mean that this is the end all be all definition of burnout. But this is a good one to use for the episode is that burnout is chronic stress over a long period of time, from mental, physical and emotional overwhelm. And it's something that sneaks up on you because stress is very, very sneaky. That is a very little known fact about stress or realization about it is that we can we get more and more acclimated to higher and higher levels of stress than we don't, don't notice it while it's happening while stress levels are rising. And there's always something and it's usually your coping mechanism, how you deal with stress, you know, at any given time that finally gives out and that's when you begin to notice the stress. So common symptoms that people see, you know, obviously given stress, an inability to focus, they have trouble making decisions. And some of these to some of these common symptoms are stress related issues. stress causes you not to be able to focus and not to, you know, doesn't provide enough clarity to make good decisions, but there's also exhaustion and I like to make the distinction that it's crippling exhaustion. It's not just I just feel tired. It is crippling, exhaustion, cynicism, you have definitely got a negative attitude towards work in your job that wasn't there before. People are usually experiencing headaches and experiencing them more often and for longer periods of time. Especially when they you know weren't really having headaches before maybe the occasional, you know, pain but not like what happens with burnout. And then there's also irritability. There's definitely a change in your mood. There's definitely a change in your aspects, some uncommon symptoms that I do love to point out, because they're not always associated with burnout. And burnout does have a list of symptoms that could apply to like 100 different things. So some of the more uncommon symptoms of burnout that don't get talked about as much would be running thoughts like you can't shut off your brain to relax or go to sleep, waking in the middle of the night, your anxiety just wakes you up, you could be sleeping perfectly fine for a couple of hours, and then 2am hits, and all of a sudden, you're wide awake, and your mind just starts running again, taking on or committing yourself to an unsustainable workload. And that happens, you know, becomes a symptom and an uncommon symptom because I think a lot of people are used to saying, Yes, I'll take that on, I'll take that on. But people that are going through burnout take on, take on an extraordinary amount of work. And without any care to themselves, or the quality of the output. There's a lot of pessimism. And that is most noticeable in people that are optimists that are typically very positive, very happy, bouncy, people. Muscle Pain is a big one, you're just always sore. And that's part of you know, how lactic acid starts building up differently when you're completely stressed out, and you're constantly you know, tightening your muscles a lot. People that are stressed some people they feel in their jaws, you know, because they grit their teeth. Other people, you know, they have other various forms of like, you know, making fists are constantly bouncing their legs, that kind of thing. This one's a fun one, you get worse hangovers with less alcohol, just because your body processes alcohol differently when you are stressed out. And there's also increased risk taking. And part of that is because you've developed kind of a screw it attitude. So you just kind of let it go and say screw I'm gonna take that risk.
Stephanie
Very interesting. I, Jennifer and I have talked before, but some of this is I'm reading notes like, oh, my gosh, I had no idea because you're right. It's not just being tired. It, it starts to get processed in your mind, and then your body and in the Yeah, another way. So fascinating. Okay, so I know it's not always work related, necessarily. Can family and personal burnout be a thing, too? Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Jennifer Bassman
In fact, it's almost like dominoes that if you burn out in one area of your life, it affects every other area of your life. So if you burn out in personal life, it can, you know, fall like dominoes with your professional life or with your social life. So it's it's absolutely possible to burnout from you know, especially like family or relationship. situation where you are the primary caretaker, there's a lot of compassion, fatigue and burnout that happens with caretaking and caregiving that gets overlooked by a lot, you know, we think, oh my gosh, it's no big deal. I'm taking care of the baby. I'm taking care of an elderly parent. But those things are very emotionally draining energy draining as well. So there's a lot of mental and physical and emotional exhaustion that happens, you know, with taking care of a family, you're keeping a house, you're making sure you know, especially with women, we take on the mental Load More often than not in our relationships and with our family.
Stephanie
Absolutely. So then, so what are some of those causes? I know we talked about, we know, you gave some really good examples. But for instance, can we talk a little bit about boundaries, like some of those causes that that you probably are causing yourself, but you know, as not other people, it's not always about other people. Maybe there's things that you can help yourself. So what are some of those causes that maybe someone listening doesn't realize that they're putting on themselves? It's in might not be other people do it? Oh, I
Jennifer Bassman
love this question. I'm so glad that you're asking this because this was something at the beginning of my burnout recovery journey that was not talked about. I mean, so when I burned out back in 2009 2010, burnout was unheard of. In fact, I didn't even know that that's what it happened to me at first until I had started doing some digging, and I just happened to come across like a business magazine article that said something about burnout. That was like a lightbulb moment of oh my gosh, this might have been what happened. What I I've discovered I've been researching burnout now for 13 years. And one of the things that I've discovered, and this is something that goes against what a lot of people really truly believe about burnout, even the experts I really feel like it's our personal habits and our personality that tend to burn us out. More than our job, or you know, our families or our relationships or the world around us, because there's a way, you know, we all process information, we all handle stress, we all handle different types of workloads very differently. And so it's, for me, it's really hard to say it's this one thing, it's your job. And I really think most of the time, it's not your job, if it's just that you how you think about your job, how you're doing the work, if you've been set up to fail, you know, what your personal work ethic and your beliefs are about getting something done, because it's not always a toxic work environment. And I'm not saying this stuff doesn't exist. But you know, we have personal tendencies that get in our way, I think more than the actual work, think about when you are taking a walk, or when you were working out or, you know, when you are working on a project at work, or you're doing your hobby, your brain thinks a different way. And when your brain is more in a negative mindset, which when you're burned out, you know, that's, that's where you are, that takes more energy out of you. That is very draining. In fact, the when you are, you know, a negative person, and you are in that negative mindset, your stress levels rise twice as fast, and it burns energy twice as fast. So you want and the reason I'm going back to my own burnout experience is because I discovered, I am a perfectionist and a people pleaser. I did not know that about myself, I in fact, I'll be honest, I didn't even know what they were at the time that I figured this out. And it were it were those two personality traits that really were the death of me. Those were at the root of my burnout. And it wasn't until I got to that root cause that my burnout recovery really started to happen. Because I was treating that actual mindset issue, you know, because my perfectionism was causing unrealistic expectations and standards of myself, and the people around me, I was making work for everybody, I was making way more work for myself. And I was taking on way too much work. And the people pleasing. You know, I just couldn't say no to people, I had no boundaries whatsoever. You know, that's actually at the core of my burnout Recovery Formula, the path that I take people down this week, we get in there, we dig in and we look at, you know, what is it that you could be doing? Not the world is doing to you? What is it that you could be doing that is contributing to the situation?
Stephanie
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I bet I have a feeling that some of our listeners are probably pausing right now taking a deep breath. Go please do me, let me let me regroup.
Jennifer Bassman
By the way, I totally relate to that sentiment, where I literally was like, Oh, my God, this I was in denial for a lot, you know, that it was me that it was my fault that what was happening was my fault. So I totally get that, that we're the last people we want to look at. But we shouldn't be the first people. So I get that.
Stephanie
It's hard. It's what you can control the best yourself and your own actions. That would make sense. So it can be avoided to a certain degree? Or can it be avoided altogether? Can how so now that we've talked about what it is, what are some of those the causes or contributions to it? Can it be avoided? Or is this just something that happens? Or it's going to happen at some point? What are your tips on that? Like? Can it be avoided? What can people do to avoid it? If they can?
Jennifer Bassman
Yes, and no. It depends on again, your personality type. If you are an overachiever, if you are a perfectionist, if you're a people pleaser, if you know you are somebody that is you know, your brain has kind of full of limiting beliefs. You have big issues with negative self talk or an inner critic that you're constantly doing battle with, you're gonna be more prone to burnout. And it's, you know, if you have a self awareness of those things with those personality types, sure, you can avoid it. And in fact, we can all avoid it if we had more self awareness about how we worked. You know, how much energy you know, we were expending how you know what our stress levels actually are. And most of us just don't have that the it's not our fault. It's just you know, that's just how you know humans are we don't sit down and think, Gosh, what's my stress level right now. But when you're burned out and you are going down that recovery path, we really need to get your stress management. I mean, like that's the number one thing is, you got to learn how to manage that stress. The type of people that tend to avoid burnout are naturally good stress, manage or, or they had great boundaries to begin with. I also I tried to think of the best term for this that like people were slacker personalities, where things don't bother them, they just kind of roll off their back, or they have no problem walking away from responsibility, you know, ignoring somebody, when can anybody volunteer, they're less likely to burn out as well. It's something that yes, it could be avoided, but we tend to ignore the things that would help us avoid it.
Stephanie
So lesson learned do nothing, everyone. Be the slacker doesn't just not very helpful avoid all of this. And but that's the thing right up the community and why we're having this conversation. Most of the organized and productive community here is they enjoy being productive, organized, or want to get to that point. And but we also don't want them to burn out. So this is this is gold. This is Yeah, we don't want them to get that far. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the impacts of burnout, on organizing, and the style and the ability to get organized and stay organized, which is what we kind of talked about, we just since we as you know, we talked about this in the there's different ways to achieve organizing and productivity. It's not all about the Go, go, go, hustle, hustle, there are different ways, and in sustainable ways. So let's talk about the relationship between between those two, can you give us some tips for staying organized during the times of burnout, like if you if you're there, let's talk about those people. If you feel like you're there, what are some tips to still stay organized, while you're dealing with burnout recovery, like, let's talk about those people first, and then just how to avoid it all together, but still be organized in those types of tips.
Jennifer Bassman
Sure, I'm glad we're talking about this, it's, I think we get more burned out, we are really hard on ourselves, that's just part of the process, you know, we feel like a failure, we feel like we aren't able to be as productive, you know, we aren't able to be as productive, which is physically weak. And mentally, we can't be as productive because of the way stress, you know, reacts within the body. But you know, you become less organized as well. In fact, for your audience, you know, that could be a sign that burnout is happening, or you're you know, coasting right into it, you're on the verge of it is that you're the organization that you once saw as a priority, or, you know, a point of pride is something that no longer appeals to you, or you aren't, you know, working as hard at it, you know, when you're burned out, you really don't feel like doing much, and you don't really have a lot of mental clarity. And one of the things I found was happening to me when I was burned out, is I couldn't remember where I put stuff. I was having a lot of like I, you know, I was so distracted by my internal thoughts and the things that were going on around me and what I was angry about or resenting or, you know, I just I wasn't thinking clearly about, oh, I put this, you know, I could this piece of paper in this particular folder, or I saw I there just the my organization's the time was even worse than it is now. But it's you have to give yourself a break. And you want to streamline your organization process absolutely as much as you possibly can. That would be my first tip is that you know, and this isn't like a permanent thing. And I can, I almost feel like some of your audience, this is like stabbing them right in the heart right now. Because you're organized people and you love things to be a certain way, while your brain is kind of simmering and stress. And while you are kind of working through, you know, your own anxiety, things aren't going to be as you might want them to be, they aren't going to be as cut and dry, they aren't going to be as straight, they aren't going to be as organized as you typically might be. And I can see that being a point of that alone being a point of stress, something that your audience would look at and say, Oh my God, you know, I can't believe I let my pantry get like this, or oh my gosh, I can't believe I let my desk get this way. And at that point, if you're having those thoughts, I would love for you to take a step back and go, Hey, I got to give myself a break here and my brain just isn't operating. Same way right now. I you know, I'm going to be a little bit messy right now. May be if, you know, I can just get things into a neat pile on my desk instead of expecting myself to put every single piece of paper away or refile a folder when I've taken it out. You know, figure out ways that you can kind of pull back without digging into yourself without being so hard on yourself while you're trying to recover because the was negative thoughts and beating yourself up? It only keeps the burnout going
Stephanie
such great points. Yeah. And that the the reminder the stepping back that you talk about just you know, make sure that you're serving some of the signs and if you're there, it's okay. You know, it's not forever. Might not Yeah, forever like it's going to be okay. We Okay, so let's talk about coping with it and now the recovery pieces. So I know you have lots of great tips on coping with it not just with you're trying to be more organized and productive. This is just in life in general, if, if you're feeling like it's coming on, the burnout is coming on. If all of this is starting to feel familiar to familiar and too comfortable, what can people do? And how can they cope? First, you know,
Jennifer Bassman
I want to tell you that I'm proud of you, if you're listening to this, and you're saying, Oh, my God, this is me. If you're having some self awareness, if you are, you know, soon thinking, wow, I'm doing some of this, and I really should do something about it. I'm proud of you for saying that. Because a lot of people just keep pushing through, and they keep trying to ignore it or sweep things under the rug. And, you know, first, that first step of, hey, something's going on here, it doesn't feel right, I don't feel good. I'm tired of being stressed out. And unfortunately, a lot of us burn out, we have to hit a rock bottom, it may not be the rock bottom, but we have to hit a rock bottom, before we stop and say, Wow, this is I got to take care of this. This is messing some things up. Because it's usually like a relationship, like a close relationship. I've noticed with a lot of people, that's not a scientific fact, it's just because people near us and our good friends aren't usually afraid to tell us, you know, hey, you've been weird lately, or you seem really stressed out? Why are you so angry all the time that, you know, they'll make comments. But going back to the coping stuff, you know, first things first, take a step back stop, I think people immediately want to start blowing things up, they immediately want to quit job, they want to close a business, they want to take a vacation, they want to shut everything down. And even though some of that might help short term, those aren't great long term strategies. Because of the way you know, stress, stress works in your body. If you don't figure out how to manage it, first, those vacations, quitting that job, none of that will matter. Because the stress will come right back, the root cause of your burnout will come right back. And so the first thing that I tell people is to stop and do, you know, do have some introspective time. And let's see if we can identify first the root cause of what burned you out what got you there, it's not always your job. And I know that that's the easiest thing for people to look at. And it may be part of it, the job may not help the situation. But actually, I have an online course where you know, for burnout recovery. And it's got five modules, and we don't even discuss quitting your job until the third module. So those first two modules, we are talking all about who you are and how you are, and how you think and how your brain works and how you would like it to work. You know what your work habits are, you know, what your work habits are versus what you want them to be, there's usually a very big, you know, space there. And then once you have that root cause of your burnout, you can start to make some more decisions from there, you know, you can start to make some decisions about what would be some great stress management, effective stress management techniques that would work for this root cause what a vacation actually helped us, or would it actually make things worse, because some people that time off makes it worse, they're people that don't sit still, my husband is one of those people. He works on his vape. And we we have a little bit of a set time where he gets to do a little bit of work. And then he can go about his day. And everything's fine. The chief first by the way, if you're an achiever, listen to this, you're very much like that, we start tackling you know, some stress man practicing some stress management techniques, and you're not going to get it on the first try. That's the other thing that I'll say you're gonna have to try, you know, do some trial and error error with some stuff to see what works. But then once you've got your stress, you know, under control, you've learned to manage it, you build an awareness towards it. And next thing you can do start making some decisions, hey, you know, what can what's going to want to answer that question of what's going to keep me feeling good? Or what's going to keep this path continuing, you know, keeping me on the path of recovery. And at that point, you can start to think of things about, like, you know, think about quitting your job or looking for a new job. Because at that point, you're, you'll know whether or not whatever is burning you out has something to do with the actual work that you do. Because what we want to not happen is you not, you know, start at least managing your stress, and taking all that with you to your next job, it just the burnout will creep its ugly head. And again, you know, once the new wears off, and at that point, you know, once you've started rearranging your life, so to speak for all your organizers, once you've started moving furniture around a little bit and, you know, repainted the walls, and decided things look better, you know, a different way, that's when you can start pushing to do more self care, that's when you can start pushing yourself to, you know, uproot your schedule a little bit and, you know, make some of the bigger decisions about, you know, how can I, how can I craft my day, so that it goes, you know, in the direction and about this time, you're going to be creating some boundaries to because those boundaries are going to help you stay organized, the boundaries are going to help you keep focused on the path that you want to go down and keep the distractions way.
Stephanie
Oh, I love this, the so much of what you just said is, it's having those tools, that initial fact finding that you get to go through, before making any huge drastic decisions that, like you said, will then lead you back to where you were, like making drastic decisions of quitting your job, like you don't address that into until later. Like having those tools is so so important. Because you don't
Jennifer Bassman
you don't take medicine for something until you know what it is that you're treating. Right. So it's kind of the same thing with burnout recovery. We don't want to make any major decisions, or, you know, do anything drastic until you actually know this is what burned
Stephanie
me out and not needing to control anything.
Jennifer Bassman
Yeah, we naturally want autonomy. Yeah, we naturally want some autonomy in our lives, and we want to be able to control our day. And I know that there are a lot of jobs out there a lot of lifestyles where that isn't always available. But there are ways that you can work around that, you know, if you, you know, I'm like thinking about school teachers and new parents, you know, where there's definitely a regimented, you know, you don't have any control over your day, you don't have any control over, you know, the things that are happening per se, but you know, there are different choices that you can make, that will alleviate a lot of your stress.
Stephanie
We love healthy choices around here. We like knowing we have options and choices. Um, okay. All right. Well, there you have it, folks. That's it. The end, and I'm just kidding. No more burnout. Okay, so did you hear you're? So what would you ask or tell people that you like? Or what would you like for them to to leave, but leave behind? Like, what notes? What parts of this conversation would you want them to take away? From the conversation in a nutshell? If they're feeling like, Yes, this is me. But I'm still a little bit overwhelmed. Like, where should I go? What do I, what would you suggest they go? Or do?
Jennifer Bassman
The first thing that I want to say is, you're not a failure. I think we all are all a lot of us equate burnout with failing. And when we go down that path and our brain, we get demotivated very, very quickly. And we stopped seeing options, we stopped seeing choices. And I you know, I am a burnout recovery coach, obviously, it's why we're having this talk. And you know, you can definitely find a lot of things on my website and my blog, I do a ton on social media. But you know, you want to look for the burnout coach that, you know, is a match for you personally, that has the right personality. I know that I'm not fit for everybody I wish I was. But you want to find that fit because you want to be comfortable. This isn't something where you want to, you know, you're gonna get stressed out when you have to continually meet with this person or, you know, walk through their course. So the first thing that I would probably do is start, you know, doing a little bit of research about burnout, recovery. What are some things that make sense to you? There are a lot of coaches out there. And when it comes to burnout, there are a lot of different types of coaches that talk about burnout, like especially like business coaches, and I would truly go for somebody where burnout is their main focus. That is what they do. Because it is it's it's something that is so unique that the burnout experience is so unique to each one of us that you need that person to understand that instead of giving you prescribe, you know, here, this is what I hate. This is the path to recovery that I hand out to everybody. And I also do want to stick in here that coaching is not a substitute for mental health or professional mental health and professional, you know, medical help, I actually did that therapy in conjunction with my burnout recovery. And it helped me out tremendously. And if it's something that you have access to, and you're comfortable with, I strongly suggest it, because it will also give you an outlet for your thoughts and somebody to help you organize your thoughts and keep you focused down a certain path, especially when you fall. Another thing that I would do at this point is get your support system going get your support network in place, I tell people and I mean this to this day, the biggest mistake I ever made when I became a business owner was not building a support network. And I know that that was a large part of why I burned out, not just my personality, but I didn't have people there wanting me to win, you know, so in those people that are in your support network, they want you to win. That's an important part of them being part of that. But you know, I've obviously I've got different, you know, I do coaching, I have an online course, that is based on my proprietary burnout recovery system that has worked for hundreds of people at this point. And you know, it's been tried and tested by myself. One of the important things is that towards the end, when you get to a certain point, we start creating a long term plan. Because I don't want you to burn out, I want you to be done with me. At a certain point, I don't want you to come back, I don't want you to be a repeat customer. I want it to be a one and done situation. And one last thing and the swirl stop is to start building an awareness of your stress is so big, even you know, if you're not ready for a coach yet, start building an awareness to your stress and what is stressing you out. Stephanie, I've actually been talking about this for the last couple of weeks, I've got a stress journal that is coming out. And I would say about two weeks from now I'm not sure when this is going to air. So I don't want to give you a date. But it actually helps you It walks you step by step through building that awareness. Because a lot of us just don't know where to start with that. Yeah,
Stephanie
those are the tools that we need in you know, to help us through moments like topics like this. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, okay, so we could go on and on forever. But with that being said, we let's talk, there's a question I always ask all the guests and then of course, we want to know where to find you. Your websites, the social medias, the you know, the other things, so that we get start with the resources and and start, you know, getting more comfortable with this topic, especially if you have found this to be very relatable. Or maybe you have someone that you know, could benefit from this conversation and you just kind of want to gently send them somewhere. Jen has amazing social media presence. You have no idea she's funny, relatable. It's great. So where can people find you? But before that, what is your favorite magazine to read? For either business, enter pleasure and why?
Jennifer Bassman
Oh my gosh, I'm such a nerd. I one of my absolute favorite magazines is Harvard Business Review of theirs. I am a psychology nerd and a self help nerd. It's not that I employ everything that I use everything I read, but I love learning how our brains work and why we think the way that we do and I love learning about productivity and you know, habits and all that kind of doesn't mean that I have all good habits by the way. I love learning about how we how we tick and why we tick. What makes us tick. And wow, a personal read. Boy, I'm still an Oprah girl. I am still an Oprah girl at heart. She just does it all in that magazine. And I think she does a great job of bringing awareness to different topics that wouldn't occur to most of us.
Stephanie
Yeah, absolutely. She's, she's good. She's good. She's good. And she's still around for a reason.
Jennifer Bassman
And she's been spot on and Gene recommendations by the way.
Stephanie
That's an Oprah if you're listening. There you have it, people thanks, girl. Okay, so where can people reach you?
Jennifer Bassman
You find me I have a website. I'm very easy to find because everything includes my name Jennifer bassman.com. You are more than welcome to email me at Jennifer at Jennifer bassman.com. I have a social media presence on Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, so whatever you're in you too, so whatever your preferred platform is, you know, go there. And I'll be honest, I, you know, post a lot of the same things on each of the platforms. Because I'm big believer in just having one or two social media platforms don't have more, it's too much. So make sure you just follow me in one of those places. Let me see. My course information is on my website as well. And my blog is another great way to you know, learn more about me or learn how my brain works as well. And I also have a weekly newsletter, you get you don't get email from me very often, in pounds you with emails. That doesn't make sense for me to do that, because I think getting pounded with emails is stressful. But I have one right now I have one major email that comes out right now on Wednesdays actually, and there might be a couple of others during the week, but I try to keep those try to keep things you know in line. Yes, and but I would love to hear from you.
Stephanie
Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining. I'm very excited to continue to connect, and have a wonderful day everybody. Thank you for listening to the organized and productive podcast with the organized Flamingo. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love it if you'd leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. It helps with letting people know that we're here are full show notes and resources head on over to the organized flamingo.com/podcast Happy organizing.